Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Just because it is "the Law" is no reason not to oppose a it and attempt to repeal it if it is bad law, which it is. Not to mention that it is extremely unpopular; hardly anybody wanted it.
Throwing a "temper tantrum" is not what's been happening here, and a real conservative would understand that. It is not only our constitutional right to oppose bad law, and to advocate for repeal, it is the American system. It is how we do things in this country. We do not just sit idly by and let the government steamroller over us. We The People have a voice. We The People are the government.
The government shutdown was a consequence of Democrats refusing to negotiate in good faith, but instead, demanding, as a condition of passage, that changes to, or the funding of, ObamaCare not be part of any Continuing Resolution. They were willing to "shut down" government to get their way.
By all means, oppose Obamacare and repeal it if you can. That will require you to win elections and lots of them. Knock yourself out.
If Obamacare is so unpopular, why are the Republicans so afraid to pass a clean CR and then act like adults and talk about reforming the law? If that's what the majority of people want, won't they support the Republicans in their efforts?
The Tea Party Republicans are trying to make their points on the backs of honest men and women who work for a living and have families to take care of. It's a chicken**** tactic. Thousands of people are being asked to work without pay. When their bills come due and there's no money in the bank to pay them, all hell is going to break loose.
1. Obama and the senate won't accept the funding bills the house has presented to them which allows government to run.
2. Most of the US public is oblivious because they listen to lamestream media which is the thermostat for their weak mindset.
3. Liberals welcome socialism/communism with open arms.
Huh. Apparently they don't even understand that. Witness the current debacle courtesy of the 2012 election losers.
Cannot argue that, but they need to be cut off at the knees in Congressional seats. The idiots making the most noise and chaos are the ones that are all warm and fuzzy in their cocoons in gerrymandered districts. We need to oust them wherever possible though. Enough of their redundant and damaging ****!
I've been either a conservative or a libertarian leaning conservative my entire life.....but I'm leaving the party because it has gone off the deep end. Since i'm a huge fan of lists I've decided to expound upon why I belive the party is a shell of it's former self.
1). They're irrational. Obamacare is the law. Throwing a temper tantrum and shutting down the government (and yes, basically everyone blames the GOP) is a terrible idea. Just suck it up...meet with the Democrats...agree to fund the law...fund the government...move on.
This kind of rational is scary. Obamacare was passed quickly in the dead of night without any discussion and without anyone really knowing what all it involved. We are just now starting to get a taste of the vast store of negativity that this law will bring upon the American people. Plus, it just smacks of carelessness to put a new law into effect that puts a great financial burden on most Americans when we are in the midst of trying to recover the economy!
We shouldn't just be willing to stay quiet and not oppose a law that is wrong for America. Yet, you buy into the media lie that the Republicans are doing all this because they just can't stand Obama. It felt the same way when Bush was in office. The Democrats treated him like garbage.
The Republicans have worked hard to shine a light on serious scandals like Benghazi and IRS while the Democrats can easily sweep it under the rug because they are so shielded by the media. If Bush had been in office, he would have been railroaded out of town and impeached.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22
4). Reaganomics is a joke.
And you believe the Democrats have done a great job at recovering the economy? Get real, nothing has really changed in the last 5 years except seeing our taxes going up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22
5). The deficit isn't THAT big of a deal right now...All CBO estimates show that our debts/deficits are sustainable.
Losing our credit rating was a big deal. The deficit is a big deal when it gets to the point where we can't even fund social security.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22
6). The military really doesn't need to be this large.
Did you even watch the news this year? NK threatened us with nuclear destruction. China is building up a massive navy. Our relations with Russia are so strained that it is pretty much a new cold war. Not really a good time to downsize, IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22
9). They're wildly hypocritical. The party of fiscal restraint....really? See GWB budget 2001-2008.
Obama already spent more in his first four years than GWB did in his eight years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22
10). They're war mongerers when their guy is in office...peacenics when the other guy is.
Funny, after 9/11, everyone was war hungry. We wanted revenge, and there would have been a lot of pissed off Americans if Bush decided to not take aggressive action.
Other reasons exist but these are the primary ones that are leading to me taking off my bumper stickers and withdrawing my name from the GOP call lists. Enjoy your journey into mediocrity.[/quote]
I've been either a conservative or a libertarian leaning conservative my entire life.....but I'm leaving the party because it has gone off the deep end. Since i'm a huge fan of lists I've decided to expound upon why I belive the party is a shell of it's former self.
Took you long enough!
I abandoned the Republican Party in 2008 when they bailed out Wall Street. That went against everything the Republican Party ever said about how capitalism is supposed to work.
Here is my contention with the GOP. They say that they plan on cutting taxes and slashing government...thats all good in theory but the second part of the equation typically doesn't work out and I personally wouldn't want it to work out. I enjoy government services...I like that my food is checked by an impartial service...I like that federal research dollars are allotted to companies for things that assist in the common good...I like that we provide insurance for the elderly....These things assist in the fabric of civilization that we know and are used to.
You can do that and still cut the government. It is fully of waste, fraud and duplicate services. Did the GOP address any of this when they had the chance? No.
Quote:
Sure the Democrats want to expand the government in various places but at least they know that it has to be paid for. The GOP grandstands on cutting taxes and government all the while growing the government at roughly the same pace. The Bush Tax Cuts added over a trillion to our national debt, alone!
Sorry, I see this as nothing in the end but a poor attempt at defending what you say you are against. Did Obama leave the tax cuts for the upper incomes in place or not?
Just because it is "the Law" is no reason not to oppose a it and attempt to repeal it if it is bad law, which it is. Not to mention that it is extremely unpopular; hardly anybody wanted it.
Throwing a "temper tantrum" is not what's been happening here, and a real conservative would understand that. It is not only our constitutional right to oppose bad law, and to advocate for repeal, it is the American system. It is how we do things in this country. We do not just sit idly by and let the government steamroller over us. We The People have a voice. We The People are the government.
The government shutdown was a consequence of Democrats refusing to negotiate in good faith, but instead, demanding, as a condition of passage, that changes to, or the funding of, ObamaCare not be part of any Continuing Resolution. They were willing to "shut down" government to get their way.
Obamacare isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination and I won't profess to support it 100% because I don't. But I do support it as an attempt to insure everyone because we don't live in a vacuum...healthcare effects us all. And I don't care if you "buy" it...i'm not selling anything.
Check out the polls on who is getting blame for the shutdown.....SPOILER ALERT...it's your team.
Since the Democrats have failed to pass a budge (for how many years now?) we have been forced into this method of operation. Republicans have proposed other options.
Democrats haven't been able to pass a "budge" because the GOP has made it their life mission to oppose every utterance that has left Obama's mouth or every penstroke that has left his hand. Again...look at polls as to who is receing the blame for our fiscal woe's. Most people have the ability to look at this objectively and see the real problem.
Blaming problems on "the religious wing" of the party is what liberals do. Most conservatives are people of faith. We are not the cause of this nations ills. Progressivism is.
No...it isn't what liberals do. I'm personally a religious person. I was raised baptist in Appalachia and converted to Catholicism later in life. I consider myself quite religious. However, I am not a fan of the anti-science stance Republicans take under the guise of supporting religion. I mean...teaching "creationism" in schools....c'mon. Further...I'm nauseated by their stance on defunding various research programs that could help save lives because an objection to how stem cells are obtained and used.
"Reaganomics", the economics of Milton Friedman, one of the greatest economists of our time, is not a "joke", and no conservative would make such a statement. Much of our economic woes are due to John Maynard Keynes' economic policies, which the Democrat Party subscribes to.
I guess I missed all those times that it worked. During Bush and Reagan's years in office the deficits and subsequently the debts have grown exponentially. Literally no objective economists will support this supply-side pipe dream. I used to support it because it meant lower taxes for myself, but it just doesn't help our nation collectively. Massive amounts of income inequality and gaps between the haves and have nots will never be good for our country.
How large should we allow it to grow? Dosen't make sense to live within your means?
It does make sense to live within our means. Yes, Democrats may want to increase various government programs but at least they have the intellectual fortitude to know that it takes tax revenues to fund these expansions. The GOP expands government just like the Democrats but they cut it's funding and then expect it all to work out.
It is our military that keeps us safe; it protects our freedom, and it's strength as a deterrent to enemy attack is directly related to our having the most modern and sophisticated weapons, ships and planes that money and technology can buy. The current downsizing that is taking place under Barack Obama, weakens us, makes us vulnerable, and is pure folly. Our enemies are taking note.
Do we really need bases in Germany? Do we need bases in South Korea to police the region?
No....we don't.
"Consensus" is not science, nor is it "scientific."
Sorta like gravity is only a theory, right?
I get it; you're gay.
Marriage is ordained by God. It is between a man and a woman. Get over it.
You are free to marry whomever you choose; just not someone of the same sex. Deal with it.
You can never let the will of the majority dictate the rights of the minority. And no...I'm not gay...I'm happily married...to a woman. I agree...I believe that marriage is ordained by God as well. However, it doesn't follow for me to tell someone that may not share my religious beliefs that they can't enter into something that they may view as a legal agreement because I don't agree with it. Gay people have the same rights that you or I do...the sooner you learn to accept that the better off you'll be when it is the law of the land.......and sooner or later it will be.
Considering what Obama has done, what he has spent, and on what, this isn't an argument that is going to work for you.
What argument?
Really? Assuming you're referring to Syria, I do not believe (nor do others) that it would be a good idea to begin assisting al-Qaeda, do you? Or do you not know (as John McCain does not know) that the rebels are al-Qaeda?
I didn't say that I support military intervention at all in Syria.
You have never been a conservative, much less "libertarian leaning" You are a plant, probably an OFA volunteer, and an Obama supporter through and through.
Yeah, I've heard that about 40 times today. I can assure you that i'm not. But convincing you of the fact that I used to be a Republican is about as low on my priority list as watching paint dry. I'm sorry that your party has gone into nutjob-land......maybe one day you'll wise up and join me.
This kind of rational is scary. Obamacare was passed quickly in the dead of night without any discussion and without anyone really knowing what all it involved.
Hogwash. There were hearings for over a year with the full participation of the Republicans. Remember the so-called "Gang of Six?" It was comprised of three Democrats and three Republicans who worked for months to find compromises, all of which were rejected out of hand by House Republicans.
The ACA was the result of more than a year of congressional committee hearings in which progressive ideas like single payer or a public option were jettisoned, and hundreds of GOP amendments to the law were accepted, in exchange for zero Republican votes.
Sen. Max Baucus, in particular, drove an eight-month bipartisan process via the Senate Finance Committee in which he and ranking Republican Chuck Grassley held dozens of hearings, released joint “policy option” papers and finally presided over 31 meetings lasting 60 hours with the so-called “Gang of Six” – Baucus and Grassley plus Kent Conrad, D-N.D., Olympia Snowe, R-Maine, Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M., and Mike Enzi, R-Wyo. — to try to hammer out a compromise that would attract GOP support.
I've been either a conservative or a libertarian leaning conservative my entire life.....but I'm leaving the party because it has gone off the deep end. Since i'm a huge fan of lists I've decided to expound upon why I belive the party is a shell of it's former self.
1). They're irrational. Obamacare is the law. Throwing a temper tantrum and shutting down the government (and yes, basically everyone blames the GOP) is a terrible idea. Just suck it up...meet with the Democrats...agree to fund the law...fund the government...move on.
I CALL BS ..... you are neither a conservative or a libertarian in any shape or form whatsoever ... you never were, and you know it!! You're a liberal pretending to be a disgruntled conservative, and it is too too obvious for anyone with a functional brain to miss. Problem with some of you liberals is that you think everyone else is just as as dense as you all are, and will fall for these contrived, childish masquerade games. #1 proves this without reading further, but I will dissect each one to illustrate the fraud you're attempting to foist here.
The first answer is .... no ... this "it's the law" response is pure liberal lunacy, given the fact that at face value, "FORCED HEALTHCARE" is the antithesis of libertarian/conservative ideology, and an obvious affront to liberty and free choice. This makes this so-called "law" an "illegal" law, and therefore, not law at all. And just because a 5-4 majority of political hack Supreme Court judges decided Obamacare was legal, doesn't make it so, except in the minds of sheep and authoritarian statists. Once upon a time, another group of hacks decided that slavery was constitutional, in spite of it's OBVIOUS illegality, as well as it's grossly immoral nature.
The truth is, we have seen nothing but an endless line of new "laws" that share this same principle of being obviously illegal on the surface, such as the NDAA and it's claim that government can arrest and indefinitely detain citizens, to be held captive by despotic government, without due process or legal remedies guaranteed by the constitution. You need no one to "interpret" this for you ... if you have two brain cells, you should be capable of coming to this "rational conclusion" all by yourself. Such laws are illegitimate, and any rational person could come to no other conclusion. ObamaCare isn't about healthcare at all, else they'd be funding 16000 new doctors to deliver this grand promise, rather than 16000 new IRS collection agents to help implement this grand scheme of continued "shakedown" of the American public. Only liberals fail to see the fraud being imposed here, because they are incapable of saying no to the promise of a government "freebie" .... any free lunch with capture them completely, even if it consists of a crap sandwich and a diet coke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22
2). Using political theatre for these debt ceiling talks every few months is a joke and irresponsible.
Politics and this "left-right" political theater has always been a giant "dog and pony show" whose sole purpose is to keep the masses believing that they actually have a voice in deciding policy, when the reality is, public opposition to decided upon policy is considered nothing more than a political inconvenience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22
3). The religious wing of the party is absurdly annoying.
Typical liberal line .... absolutely exposes you for what you are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22
4). Reaganomics is a joke.
See above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22
5). The deficit isn't THAT big of a deal right now...All CBO estimates show that our debts/deficits are sustainable.
Mind numbing ignorance on full display here ... and another typical liberal "tax and spend them to death" position that NO conservative would ever dream of believing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22
6). The military really doesn't need to be this large.
It does when you insist on being the world policeman .... and the liberals and Obama want so desperately to have a new war with Syria to add to the current wars .... who do you think is going to fight these wars?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22
7). It's blind aversion to scienfitic consensus.
I'm assuming you're making a veiled reference to Global Warming and CO2 being a poison gas. Another authoritarian statist fraud ... CO2 is not a poison gas ... it's a life sustaining gas, the more of it, the better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22
8). Gay marriage is GOING to be the law of the land one day in the very near future. Get over it. If you aren't gay...don't marry someone of the same sex.
Again, the gay marriage issue has nothing to do with embracing the rights of homosexuals. This tiny fraction of the general populace are being used as useful idiots to further the authoritarian left agenda of seizing the power to control every facet of existence, regardless of popular majority opposition. It's a fraud just like ObamaCare and Global Warming. The issue is CONTROL, CONTROL, CONTROL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22
9). They're wildly hypocritical. The party of fiscal restraint....really? See GWB budget 2001-2008.
It's hypocrisy to cite the criminal Bush and his gang looting of the American treasury, when Obama has outpaced Bush spending to date by at least DOUBLE that previous disastrous rate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22
10). They're war mongerers when their guy is in office...peacenics when the other guy is.
Oh REALLY ? Tell me ... liberal ... where has "Code Pink" been since Bush left office and Obama took over the war making duty? Code who? Code Pink ... you know that national group of peace lovers who were garnering national attention on a weekly basis when they were attacking the neocon war mongers. The moment the Kenyan-In-Chief took office, they took vacation, and haven't been back since. They disappeared like magic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22
Other reasons exist but these are the primary ones that are leading to me taking off my bumper stickers and withdrawing my name from the GOP call lists. Enjoy your journey into mediocrity.
These are not reasons ... these are liberal talking points, of which none possess an ounce of truth or legitimacy.
Is it mandatory that to be a member of the the progressive left, you must be dishonest? Or is it simply that birds of a feather indeed do flock together?
First- Bush threw McCain under the bus in 2000. He ran a decent man into the mud with the help of the Neo-Cons. That is one reason I disliked Bush.
Two- Bush and the Neo-Cons fabricated a BS smoke screen to convince Congress to go to war in 2003. No evidence. Just go do it. And he deployed a lot of troops to do it.
If McCain HAD been elected- I'm quite confident that our effort to remove Saddam would have been a little more thought out, wouldn't you agree? One thing that McCain is not is some cowboy- "Mission accomplished!" butt-wipe war dodger. He knows the repercussions of WAR better than Bush Jr. or any of his dream team.
The Bush GOP/Neo-cons set their sights on McCain because he was/is a moderate republican.
People tend to forget that Bush gave Saddam a full year of warning to comply with the UN regulations and inspections before finally taking military action. Saddam chose to thumb his nose at us.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
