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If you believe a woman has the right to abort a 30 week pregnancy, can you explain to me why you would believe it's not a human and a 10-week early preemie is?
As far as I'm concerned, the point at which a fetus becomes a 'person' is when it's detached from the mother. Until then, the fetus is not an individual so far as I'm concerned.
And to respond to your question, the preemie's in your example has been detached. The 30-week fetus hasn't.
All that said, if a woman chooses to carry to term, that's her choice and her business and she can seek advice and counsel from whoever she pleases -- but nobody has the right or authority to tell her what to do or direct her choice.
Abortion and euthanization aren't the same thing. It's unfair of you to conflate the two. If my 5-year old child was hit by a truck, was brain-dead and machines were breathing and circulating blood through his body, I would want him taken off of the machines. Your scenario is unrealistic. The law doesn't allow a parent to euthanize a child who is disfigured and quadriplegic. And no one on this thread is arguing that the law should be changed.
Specifically explain to me how an abortion at 36 weeks and euthanizing a preemie born 4 weeks early are different?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimuelojones
36 weeks is about a 8 month old pregnancy? who aborts at 36 weeks unless the life of the mother or the fetus is serverly deformed?
there is no abortion on demand in the thrid trimmester [24 weeks].
dont get hung up on non exsitant hypotheticals.
Specifically tell me the difference between a 23 week gestational baby and a 36 week one?
36 weeks is about a 8 month old pregnancy? who aborts at 36 weeks unless the life of the mother or the fetus is serverly deformed?
there is no abortion on demand in the thrid trimmester [24 weeks].
dont get hung up on non exsitant hypotheticals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuna Meowt
As far as I'm concerned, the point at which a fetus becomes a 'person' is when it's detached from the mother. Until then, the fetus is not an individual so far as I'm concerned.
I'm just going to try to summarize how I feel so people can better understand my stance.
I am 100% certain that when a pregnancy reaches 21 weeks, the fetus is a baby, a person. I come to this conclusion that babies born this early do survive. I also feel that prior to that, they are humans that can feel pain and have emotions; however, I do not know at what point they go from being a clump of cells (which they are up to a point) to a human.
Since I place value on human life, I don't feel that somebody should be allowed to kill a human without there being circumstances that warrant it. In terms of a pregnancy, I feel that aborting a late term baby is only acceptable in situations where the mother's life is in actual jeopardy and when a severe issue such as an anencephalic condition is discovered.
Somewhere there is that line between cells and a human, and I'd rather the law error on the conservative side (not as in liberal/conservative - for any dingbats out there) as to protect a human life, even one still in the womb. At this point, I feel that in the first trimester it's still a "clump of cells"; therefore, I do not oppose elective abortion at that point. If I'm ever shown evidence that strongly suggests it's earlier or later than that, I would reconsider the point at which I felt elective abortions should be legal.
I personally see no difference between a 23 week gestational baby, a 4 week premature baby in the NICU and a 3 week old baby at someone's home in their nursery other than physical development. Because of this, you'll never successfully argue to me that there is a just reason to abort a 23 week gestational baby because it would be like saying there is a reason to euthanize a baby that has been home for 3 weeks.
If you believe a woman has the right to abort a 30 week pregnancy, can you explain to me why you would believe it's not a human and a 10-week early preemie is?
I believe a woman has the right to abort a 30-week pregnancy when she and her doctor consider it medically necessary. If a woman has carried a baby for 30 weeks, she's not aborting on a whim. Women don't have abortions on a whim. Whatever the right-to-life proponents have told you. The choice to abort or to continue with a pregnancy is a heartrending choice for the vast majority of women. You have no idea what's going on in someone's mind or heart, even women who seem cool and casual about abortion are often destroyed on the inside.
Well, good for them. I'm sincerely happy for them.
Here's the problem. You look at overcoming the 1% odds and apparently want others to follow suit. But what you're not considering is the pain, expense and trouble you'd put others through *just* to appease your own opinion of what they should be doing. *Most* feti in that situation would die, even if brought to term; the 1% chance isn't fictional. If the fetus was brought to term and lived, well, we knew going into it that the fetus had a *remote* chance at making it. Yet I think you would *demand* that others take the same risk, regardless of the chance of success or failure. I think you'd want them to take that 99% chance of failure, just to make yourself feel better.
And who are you that others should do as you want?
Well, good for them. I'm sincerely happy for them.
Here's the problem. You look at overcoming the 1% odds and apparently want others to follow suit. But what you're not considering is the pain, expense and trouble you'd put others through *just* to appease your own opinion of what they should be doing. *Most* feti in that situation would die, even if brought to term; the 1% chance isn't fictional. If the fetus was brought to term and lived, well, we knew going into it that the fetus had a *remote* chance at making it. Yet I think you would *demand* that others take the same risk, regardless of the chance of success or failure. I think you'd want them to take that 99% chance of failure, just to make yourself feel better.
And who are you that others should do as you want?
Of course you feel this way; afterall,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuna Meowt
As far as I'm concerned, the point at which a fetus becomes a 'person' is when it's detached from the mother. Until then, the fetus is not an individual so far as I'm concerned.
I think that the vast majority of women at 36 weeks in their pregnancy and feels the kick of their baby would feel that their baby is an individual at that point.
Personally, I characterize you the same as I characterize the small group (as a percentage of the whole) who believe it's an individual person upon conception. You'll never be able to reason with them.
You dont know human gestation? a fetus is less viable at 23 weeks than 36 weeks. A 36 week old fetus is almost fully formed and almost ready for birth. Viablility. survival out of the womb. Devolpment.
there is no hard rule of viablity, the fetus is more vialble at 23 weeks than 20 weeks and more viable at 36.
Do you believe that a parent whose 5-year-old is disfigured and a quadriplegic should be allowed to have that child euthanized? If not, are you willing to adopt that child?
Absolutely not. That being said, do I think that parent should have the right to abort that child? Yes.
You, on the other hand, seem to be against abortion, so I ask you again....would YOU take my severely disabled child once I give birth to it?
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