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Old 10-11-2013, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Stasis
15,823 posts, read 12,467,310 times
Reputation: 8599

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Back home in the Fatherland Volkswagen sees the benefits of 'works councils', giving employees a seat the corporate decision table, and wants to do the same at it's Chattanooga plant. US law prevents this unless employees are part of a union. VW is fine with that but is facing opposition from state politicians, some of it's US executives, and many hourly workers. When the vote comes to unionize (or not) VW will be in odd position of siding with the UAW.

VW "said recently that the Chattanooga plant might have a better chance at landing a hot new sport utility vehicle for the assembly plant, which now produces Passat sedans, if it had a works council to represent it."

"To many Americans, the notion of works councils belongs alongside socialized medicine and six-week vacations as examples of the practices that have doomed Europe to near-zero growth. But another way to look at it is that works councils are part of a model that has helped preserve Germany’s industrial base and hold the country’s unemployment to a relatively low level: 5.2 percent, compared with 7.3 percent in the United States."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/11/bu...d-dispute.html
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Old 10-11-2013, 09:59 AM
 
408 posts, read 393,606 times
Reputation: 379
Even non-manufacturing businesses in Germany often have some sort of worker representation among senior management. It's not uncommon for a banking or financial corporation to have a couple of junior employees serving as representatives and spokesmen for the rank-and-file at senior executive level meetings.

Considering the efficiency and industriousness that Germans are known for, I doubt they'd do something like this if they didn't expect to derive some benefit from it.
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Old 10-11-2013, 10:02 AM
 
Location: The Mid South
304 posts, read 472,412 times
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Default A Balance of Power Needed.

Some kind of communication between the workforce and management is desirable. A one sided, talk down from the top, sets up tensions that build over time. Even floor supervisors should welcome unions and councils. Often they know that top management is expecting to much but they are caught in the middle and can't be seen as being soft on the workers.
Everyone benefits when there is a balance of power where there can be checks and balances.
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Old 10-11-2013, 10:09 AM
 
25,021 posts, read 27,938,262 times
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The really funny part was the bit where it says the workers are opposed to joining the union. Guess when you have big guns and small brains, you fight against your own interests, especially when VW is basically ASKING for unionized workers. Maybe VW should set up shop in Pennsylvania instead
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Old 10-11-2013, 10:13 AM
 
Location: texas
9,127 posts, read 7,944,791 times
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wasnt the movie..."Mr Mom" a call for an end to the American way or the Highway mentality?

How could state officials be upset with a private company's managment decisions? The State is the last bastion of personal feedoms and the oppression form government overlords.

Liberty for VW or death...
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Old 10-11-2013, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,364,082 times
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That is interesting. The 'works council' sounds similar to some of the ideas of Edward Deming, which Japanese automakers adopted. I did not realize that such practices were illegal under US labor law. That's crazy.

Is this why large US companies are so stuck on the top-down, command & control approach? Because if they try to elicit input from line workers they could get sued or fined? Crazy.
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Old 10-11-2013, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,364,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
The really funny part was the bit where it says the workers are opposed to joining the union. Guess when you have big guns and small brains, you fight against your own interests, especially when VW is basically ASKING for unionized workers. Maybe VW should set up shop in Pennsylvania instead
I'm guessing you have never been in a union or you would not make such ill-informed comments. I am not anti-union. I'm a union member and have even held an elected position in my union, but unions are a mixed bag.

Collective bargaining is a plus, IMO, but other aspects are not. For one thing, like any democratically-run enterprise, whether the federal gov't, a publicly traded corporation, or a union, it ends up being run for the benefit of the people at the top and their friends. Public choice econ 101.

For another thing, in unions seniority is king, so if you're a go-getter superstar type, you will find yourself losing out to people who can't do a tenth of what you can, but have been warming a seat for a longer period of time than you. The flip side is that you won't find yourself losing out to someone who is a better schmoozer and a$$-kisser. It's a mixed bag. There are reasons why union membership in the private sector have been in steady decline.
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Old 10-11-2013, 11:00 AM
 
12,265 posts, read 6,474,011 times
Reputation: 9435
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
I'm guessing you have never been in a union or you would not make such ill-informed comments. I am not anti-union. I'm a union member and have even held an elected position in my union, but unions are a mixed bag.

Collective bargaining is a plus, IMO, but other aspects are not. For one thing, like any democratically-run enterprise, whether the federal gov't, a publicly traded corporation, or a union, it ends up being run for the benefit of the people at the top and their friends. Public choice econ 101.

For another thing, in unions seniority is king, so if you're a go-getter superstar type, you will find yourself losing out to people who can't do a tenth of what you can, but have been warming a seat for a longer period of time than you. The flip side is that you won't find yourself losing out to someone who is a better schmoozer and a$$-kisser. It's a mixed bag. There are reasons why union membership in the private sector have been in steady decline.
I was a steelworker for 35 years and I can tell you this. In a modern factory with a slimmed down workforce, there are no seat warmers. Everyone is accountable for production. The menial labor jobs were contracted out years ago.
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Old 10-11-2013, 11:01 AM
 
Location: The Brat Stop
8,347 posts, read 7,242,601 times
Reputation: 2279
Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpaw View Post
Back home in the Fatherland Volkswagen sees the benefits of 'works councils', giving employees a seat the corporate decision table, and wants to do the same at it's Chattanooga plant. US law prevents this unless employees are part of a union. VW is fine with that but is facing opposition from state politicians, some of it's US executives, and many hourly workers. When the vote comes to unionize (or not) VW will be in odd position of siding with the UAW.

VW "said recently that the Chattanooga plant might have a better chance at landing a hot new sport utility vehicle for the assembly plant, which now produces Passat sedans, if it had a works council to represent it."

"To many Americans, the notion of works councils belongs alongside socialized medicine and six-week vacations as examples of the practices that have doomed Europe to near-zero growth. But another way to look at it is that works councils are part of a model that has helped preserve Germany’s industrial base and hold the country’s unemployment to a relatively low level: 5.2 percent, compared with 7.3 percent in the United States."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/11/bu...d-dispute.html
I don't believe Volkswagen has too much to be concerned with, hopefully they'll pack up and move, or go out of business, they're hurting right now.
September 2013 US Auto Sales Adversely Affected By Timing; For The Third Quarter US Auto Sales Are Expected To Be Up 9%

Quote:
Volkswagen was a big loser last month, with sales down more than 12 percent from September 2012, and it has been hit this year in the U.S. market by the resurgence from its competitors.
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Old 10-11-2013, 11:02 AM
 
23,838 posts, read 23,127,661 times
Reputation: 9409
I would actually support a union if they had the foresight and mental capability of reigning in their demands. Something like hybrid where contract negotiations take place only every 20 years, with prescribed wage escalations built in tied to the CPI and no room for bargaining until the next contract period, to ensure the business has the flexibility and the continuity to operate without fear of retribution through strikes and other measures. Protect the worker and the business without the distractions that unions ALWAYS bring to the workplace.
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