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Old 10-12-2013, 04:06 PM
 
2,234 posts, read 1,752,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuna Meowt View Post
As late as 1963, the top marginal tax rate was 90%.

Strangely, we were still able to maintain a growing economy, one of the highest standards of living in the world and a sizable military force, befitting our status as a world superpower.

Oh, yes, and we were in the midst of building the Interstate Highway System. These days, we don't even seem to be able to maintain it properly, so good thing we built it with those sky-high tax rates.
Yes, thanks to money that we borrowed from China, we have an economy that's almost growing faster than our debt and the highest standard of living and sizable military that China's manufacturing and money allows us to afford.... We should be proud! We have too many programs, pay too much taxes, not enough people are contributing to the economy, and money is being spent wastefully. If we stay on the same course, we wont be a superpower for long.
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Old 10-12-2013, 04:11 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,226,700 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post
"Compared to.. compared to... compared to..."

Enough!

Making a comparison between nations based only on a single metric such as income tax rate and then declaring that you have factual advantage in the discussion is idiocy. That kind of comparison is akin to comparing a rock and a bottle of water, and then claiming that because people need water, the bottle of water is better. It might be for nourishing you, but the rock wins if you want a better weapon, or door stop, or paper weight, etc.

America has and should have lower taxes because we're a different country with a different system of government and different ideals about how one should live their life. Enough with the direct comparisons based only on income tax. You can certainly include the tax rate in a discussion and still debate intelligently, but a single thing like the income tax rate can't be the foundation of your position when comparing countries and claiming that one is better than another.
Yes compared to. Without a point of reference we can't have a discussion. We pay more taxes than Russians do and less than Europeans do. We get more services than the Russians do though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Basically, you get a penny's worth of service for each dollar you give the government.

That is ludicrous.
That's because most of our money goes to SS, Medicare, and the military.

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Old 10-12-2013, 04:14 PM
 
408 posts, read 392,303 times
Reputation: 379
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoniDanko View Post
Yes, thanks to money that we borrowed from China, we have an economy that's almost growing faster than our debt and the highest standard of living and sizable military that China's manufacturing and money allows us to afford.... We should be proud! We have too many programs, pay too much taxes, not enough people are contributing to the economy, and money is being spent wastefully. If we stay on the same course, we wont be a superpower for long.
Well, I don't know how you feel about it, but I'd much rather pay higher taxes than owe a boatload of debt. And I'd especially prefer to not owe our competition (China) so much.

It's pretty clear that China was in no position to shovel money at our Treasuries back in the 60s, so maybe, just maybe, those high marginal tax rates served a useful purpose.
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Old 10-12-2013, 04:16 PM
 
11,086 posts, read 8,511,176 times
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The answer to the OP's original question is: because 47 percent of the country are paying no taxes and much of that group are net tax consumers.

Given that, no one wants to pay now.
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Old 10-12-2013, 04:19 PM
 
2,234 posts, read 1,752,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
Yes compared to. Without a point of reference we can't have a discussion. We pay more taxes than Russians do and less than Europeans do. We get more services than the Russians do though.
That's because most of our money goes to SS, Medicare, and the military.
"WE" do not get more services, and the services that WE do get, we can not afford to have. The money that's going into these government services are going to services that do not work.
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Old 10-12-2013, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,048,869 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goinback2011 View Post
The answer to the OP's original question is: because 47 percent of the country are paying no taxes and much of that group are net tax consumers.

Given that, no one wants to pay now.
And who make up that 47%?
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Old 10-12-2013, 04:25 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,226,700 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanokie View Post
Nice little graph, lots of colors and big words. Unfortunately its a proven load of garbage.

Tax revenue has remained nearly constant since the 60s or 70s as a % of GDP. The biggest contributers to our debt are economic crashes and social security / medicare.

Tax revenues are at the lowest level in 60 years.

PolitiFact New Jersey | Rep. Bill Pascrell says federal revenues, as a share of the economy, are lowest in 40-50 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by justanokie View Post
some
correct
wrong
some
wrong
some
wrong
etc.
Social mobility is lower, education rankings are lower, median wealth is much lower, and crime is obviously higher.

http://www.thefinancialist.com/wp-co...lthReport-.pdf


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Old 10-12-2013, 04:27 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,226,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoniDanko View Post
"WE" do not get more services, and the services that WE do get, we can not afford to have. The money that's going into these government services are going to services that do not work.
Um, I've been to Russia and have family there. We most definitely do get more services.
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Old 10-12-2013, 04:29 PM
 
2,234 posts, read 1,752,289 times
Reputation: 856
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuna Meowt View Post
Well, I don't know how you feel about it, but I'd much rather pay higher taxes than owe a boatload of debt. And I'd especially prefer to not owe our competition (China) so much.

It's pretty clear that China was in no position to shovel money at our Treasuries back in the 60s, so maybe, just maybe, those high marginal tax rates served a useful purpose.
The thing is, half of Americans are paying higher taxes for a minimum about of services and we still owe and are accruing a boat load of dept. The problem is that we have an over sized military, a plethora of government programs, a bunch of people who aren't contributing, and a bunch of wasteful spending. We're giving the government $2.45 trillion in taxes, and they gave us 16 trillion and counting of debt. It's so illogically, stupid, and just out right mind boggling that some of you could possibly think that the answer to the problem is to give the government more money. We are being over taxed to try and make up for bad money management, and paying the same or more taxes isn't going to fix a god d*mn thing. It certainly isnt going make us "safer" or more "stable" like some people seem to think...
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Old 10-12-2013, 04:58 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,226,700 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoniDanko View Post
The thing is, half of Americans are paying higher taxes for a minimum about of services and we still owe and are accruing a boat load of dept. The problem is that we have an over sized military, a plethora of government programs, a bunch of people who aren't contributing, and a bunch of wasteful spending. We're giving the government $2.45 trillion in taxes, and they gave us 16 and counting of debt. It's so illogically, stupid, and just out right mind boggling that some of you could possibly think that the answer to the problem is to give the government more money. We are being over taxed to try and make up for bad money management, and paying the same or more taxes isn't going to fix a god d*mn thing. It certainly isnt going yo make us "safer" or more "stable" like some people seem to think...
Most of the tax revenue goes to provide for Medicare, SS, and the military.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoniDanko View Post
LOL you don't listen. I do not believe that over taxing citizens equals more stability, so I rather stay in the US with lower taxes.
If you think that Americans are over taxed then you would move to Russia or one of the developing countries. You likely won't because even though they have lower tax rates they get less services and that is something you are accustomed to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoniDanko View Post
Oh yea I can when I'm responding to you saying:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoniDanko View Post
You think that over taxing citizens to pay for cost ineffective programs for citizens who don not pay taxes provides a safety and stability for the US. That makes no since at all, and yes I can complain about it.
The people complaining about taxes never point out Medicare, nor do they want to cut Medicare. If we want to keep Medicare then we have to pay taxes. If you are now referring to the original topic, we aren't overtaxed compared to western countries that provide similar services.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoniDanko View Post
LOL except that the people that you are referring to do not pay much in taxes, but get the most benefits. So half of america is over paying in taxes to help support the other half that isn't paying their share. Thanks for proving my point.
Lower income people pay property taxes as well, which is what you complained about after you tried to lump them in with income taxes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoniDanko View Post
I guess that because you're apart of the half that doesn't over pay for a lesser share of government benefits, you can't even begin to understand why we complain about taxes. I get it.
Just because I prefer facts to a made up reality doesn't mean I don't pay taxes. I'm not a senior or a parent. Ergo, no exception or deduction for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoniDanko View Post
No I could live right were I am now, have the same services, and not have to be over taxed if I did not have to pick up the slack for other. You keep ignoring that point.
You aren't picking up the slack for others. Everybody pays property taxes. If you want services you have to pay for them. Why haven't you moved to a place that doesn't have property taxes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoniDanko View Post
Who's saying we're a high tax county? No One! We're saying that we're over taxed in this country, and if the citizens in another country are worse off than we are, then they're being over taxed as well.
Over taxed compared to whom?
The developed world? No we aren't.
The developing world? Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoniDanko View Post
Then explain why the crime rate is the highest in low income areas that receive more government services than in areas that pay high taxes? Government services that aren't designed to make people more self efficient such as the services that are offered in the US, contribute to the crime rate... That would suggest to me that if there were less people on government services, and more people contributing, then not only could everyone taxes decrease, but crie would decrease too... Which would prove you wrong.
Maine is the safest US state and one of the highest tax. Louisiana is the most dangerous and the lowest tax. Government services includes police, fire, hospitals, schools; those services eat up the bulk of property taxes. When you provide services like education you won't have to provide as many police and jail services.
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