The Death .... (weapons, suspect, independent, military)
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OK...based on your remarks I would conclude...is any strategic benefit we gain through our over the top unilateral support of Israel militarily worth the blowback to us it causes in regional resentment and hatred of the United states, fanned more so by our army sat plop in the middle of them? People have basic dignity and national pride, we seem to think we are the only ones allowed that privelige sometimes.
And based on your remarks why the Hell are we trying to establish a Jeffersonian style Democracy there again?
I often wonder about such statements as it being ultimately the USA's fault for the Muslims hatred...
When simply reading the Koran will explain this hatred quite well.
I've travelled all around the Middle East fairly extensively, oz, and you know what, I had no problems with the koran readers over there. What I find is there are radical nuts in any society that use their religion as an excuse to cause mayhem and violence. This does happen more often in poorer countries, but it can happen anywhere. Our national intelligence reports suggest that our presence in Iraq is helping many Koran readers to join the radical element "Dark Side", and many regional experts both Western and Arabic concur that our one sidedness in Israel is a constant aggravation to the Muslim commmunity. Makes sense to me.
OK...based on your remarks I would conclude...is any strategic benefit we gain through our over the top unilateral support of Israel militarily worth the blowback to us it causes in regional resentment and hatred of the United states, fanned more so by our army sat plop in the middle of them? People have basic dignity and national pride, we seem to think we are the only ones allowed that privelige sometimes.
And based on your remarks why the Hell are we trying to establish a Jeffersonian style Democracy there again?
You seem to think you know my position re: Israel simply by my pointing out the root of the problem lies with Muslim intransigence.
I do not support the aid given to Israel(or Egypt,a Muslim nation that receives about $1 billion a year from the USA) or ANY nation.
We are hated ismply because it is what any good Muslim would do when following their holy book,it would matter little if the USA stopped all aid to Israel in my opinion.
I am confused that you somehow equate US forces in Iraq as reason for Muslim hatred, do you consider Muslims some sort of monolithic bloc of thinking?
I've travelled all around the Middle East fairly extensively, oz, and you know what, I had no problems with the koran readers over there. What I find is there are radical nuts in any society that use their religion as an excuse to cause mayhem and violence. This does happen more often in poorer countries, but it can happen anywhere. Our national intelligence reports suggest that our presence in Iraq is helping many Koran readers to join the radical element "Dark Side", and many regional experts both Western and Arabic concur that our one sidedness in Israel is a constant aggravation to the Muslim commmunity. Makes sense to me.
Just for the record, most radical Muslims are upper or middle class, well educated and relatively well off.
And those radical nuts number roughly 20% of Muslims polled....thats quite a contingent of 'nuts'.
As to aggravating Muslims by the USA giving aid to Israel, are you suggesting other nations should dictate the USA's foreign policy?
Should their religious fanaticism and threats of terror be reason to give in to them?
I've travelled all around the Middle East fairly extensively, oz, and you know what, I had no problems with the koran readers over there. What I find is there are radical nuts in any society that use their religion as an excuse to cause mayhem and violence. This does happen more often in poorer countries, but it can happen anywhere. Our national intelligence reports suggest that our presence in Iraq is helping many Koran readers to join the radical element "Dark Side", and many regional experts both Western and Arabic concur that our one sidedness in Israel is a constant aggravation to the Muslim commmunity. Makes sense to me.
Hear, Hear ! I too have travelled extensively throughout the Middle east and North Africa and even as a single woman traveller never experienced anything buy kindness and hospitality. Nutters are everywhere and yes of late Muslim fundamentalists and terrorists have been a lot more vocal and successful in their criminal activity. This does not mean that the general population of Palestine, Morocco, Saudi Arabia etc... is out to get us.
Islam was not always the intolerant religion and nor were Islamic population as backwards as some believe them to be now.
Islam has been high-jacked as a political agenda by a small, albeit vocal majority and yet I still genuinely believe most Muslims are nice, decent people.
The only way for us to "win" this war of ideology is to understand the cultural backgrounds and utilise a more moderate Islam against the nutters and murderers.
We will NEVER defeat those people by invading countries, blasting them into the stone age or starving them. This kind of policy would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.
It only serves to recruit and radicalise more fundamentalists and confirm all those people are told by the bad guys.
It's not only highly dangerous, it is plain stupid and about as effective as trying to catch water with chopsticks.
What i saw in Palestine will stay forever with me. Not blood crazy terrorists but normal people trying to eke out an existence and trying to feed themselves and their family.
Are there terrorists in Palestine ? Of course, nobody is denying that. But to imply that an entire population is responsible for those acts is ignorant and offensive.
You might as well bomb all of the UK, Spain or Germany as there seems to be quite a few terror cells there too.
Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is hardly a solution.
Also to imply that somehow Israel is all innocent and free from responsibility is just ignorant and forgetting of history.
The Middle east is a power keg as it is and the way we are going about it at the moment, we are the one holding the torch.
Hear, Hear ! I too have travelled extensively throughout the Middle east and North Africa and even as a single woman traveller never experienced anything buy kindness and hospitality. Nutters are everywhere and yes of late Muslim fundamentalists and terrorists have been a lot more vocal and successful in their criminal activity. This does not mean that the general population of Palestine, Morocco, Saudi Arabia etc... is out to get us.
Islam was not always the intolerant religion and nor were Islamic population as backwards as some believe them to be now.
Islam has been high-jacked as a political agenda by a small, albeit vocal majority and yet I still genuinely believe most Muslims are nice, decent people.
The only way for us to "win" this war of ideology is to understand the cultural backgrounds and utilise a more moderate Islam against the nutters and murderers.
We will NEVER defeat those people by invading countries, blasting them into the stone age or starving them. This kind of policy would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.
It only serves to recruit and radicalise more fundamentalists and confirm all those people are told by the bad guys.
It's not only highly dangerous, it is plain stupid and about as effective as trying to catch water with chopsticks.
What i saw in Palestine will stay forever with me. Not blood crazy terrorists but normal people trying to eke out an existence and trying to feed themselves and their family.
Are there terrorists in Palestine ? Of course, nobody is denying that. But to imply that an entire population is responsible for those acts is ignorant and offensive.
You might as well bomb all of the UK, Spain or Germany as there seems to be quite a few terror cells there too.
Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is hardly a solution.
Also to imply that somehow Israel is all innocent and free from responsibility is just ignorant and forgetting of history.
The Middle east is a power keg as it is and the way we are going about it at the moment, we are the one holding the torch.
I agree with your post.
Keep in mind however that the topic was how big bad Israel is oppressing the Palestinians...the innocent peaceful Pals just want to be left alone.
All but the most biased know that there are no good guys and bad guys in this conflict....the Pals and others still would love to destroy Israel while Israel has their thumb on them.
Consider Hamas and Fatah's "relationship" for how messed up that area is.
I've travelled all around the Middle East fairly extensively, oz, and you know what, I had no problems with the koran readers over there. What I find is there are radical nuts in any society that use their religion as an excuse to cause mayhem and violence. This does happen more often in poorer countries, but it can happen anywhere. Our national intelligence reports suggest that our presence in Iraq is helping many Koran readers to join the radical element "Dark Side", and many regional experts both Western and Arabic concur that our one sidedness in Israelisconstant aggravation to the Muslim commmunity. Makes sense to me.
So have I, bily4. I agree that most folks there are decent souls, and that a fanatic minority has the idea that jihad means murder. Unfortunately, though, that minority has the guns and the will to use them -- indiscriminately. (What was it that Yeats wrote in his poem "The Second Coming"?
"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are filled with passionate intensity." )
-- but nearly every Arab I've ever met has a blind spot when it comes to Israel, or didn't you notice?
According to a Pew poll,70% of Palestinians support suicide bombings against civilians.....
Which one?
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