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Old 10-14-2013, 07:04 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,088 posts, read 13,447,778 times
Reputation: 14266

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It's time to own up to the fact that sitting idly by and watching as millions of good-paying middle class jobs drifted overseas to China, India, and others over the course of the 1990s to present was a massive mistake. In other words, we didn't regulate and protect our economy appropriately, and we are now paying dearly for it. And neither Republicans nor Democrats know how to fix it.

What happens when you hollow out the bedrock structure of middle class jobs and replace them with meager service-based McJobs? Escalating private debt, impaired private consumption ability, increasing reliance on public assistance - and hence, increasing public debt. Oh, but you do get lots of cheap crap from China, and the corporations do really well.

Let's call out both Republicans and Democrats for their part in this.

Republicans: This is what happens when you aggressively de-regulate the economy in an age of globalization and mechanization. The free market thing was aligned with America's interests when the labor pool was largely self-contained; not so much when you open the floodgates and drastically change the mix of the labor pool. Great for corporations, great for foreigners, not so great for the rest of us. By helping the rich get richer and saying "*********" to the middle class, you have ironically become the greatest cheerleaders of the welfare state. Where do you think the person whose job got outsourced is likely to go, even with their new Wal-mart job that doesn't give them enough to live on? To the line for public assistance. And you don't realize that this problem will not take care of itself with further deregulation - those jobs are never coming back, and American wages cannot compete with the low-cost foreigners.

Democrats: You consider expanded entitlements to be "helping", but it's not real, sustainable help. Real help for America comes in the form of a strong middle class job structure. And you did nothing to stop any of this, because you're just as much purchased by corporate interests as are the Republicans. And the regulation you offer is not geared toward actually protecting or fostering American jobs; it's geared toward rote wealth redistribution. This does not work for long, because it just grows the debt. There is a big difference between being given a buck and earning a buck.

So we have Republicans, who watched American jobs go overseas and think that further deregulation would help things (it won't); and we have Democrats, who watched American jobs go overseas and think that further entitlement expansion would help things (it won't). It doesn't matter who wins, the nation is still more or less equally screwed.

To fix this problem would require some SMART economic regulation at this point. Those jobs are not coming back on their own. You need to let market mechanisms work, but you also need to have some protective safeguards for American workers. And you can't just let corporations displace the entire middle body of American jobs for the sake of profit of a few hundred people at the top. Smart regulation works in successful, high quality of life nations like Germany, Austria, and the Nordics, which are also all more solvent than we are. Everyone, go look at unemployment rates in Switzerland, Austria, Germany, and Norway.

Of course, this kind of a fix will never happen - too much like "socialism" - and so America will continue to limp along its present course with lots of arguments between Democrats and Republicans that accomplish nothing in the form of growing the middle class. The top few percents will do fabulously well, everyone else will watch their quality of life degrade for decades to come.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,889,999 times
Reputation: 14125
That is the truth. Thank you for saying what needed to be said. Both parties are responsible mutually and not just one exclusively.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:34 PM
 
22,661 posts, read 24,589,306 times
Reputation: 20338
Those jobs are NOT the USA's.......we must compete with the rest of the globe to attract and maintain those jobs in this country.

Guess what, for many companies, this country is no longer attractive to set up shop in.

Be very, very thankful for Kmartadelphia, Walmartville and similar....for the most part, that is the best we can do.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,020 posts, read 14,198,297 times
Reputation: 16747
Regulation and restrictions are only necessary when there is no one to hold responsible.
In other words, limited liability is the underlying cause.
Eliminate limited liability and you end the need for regulations.
If a business or corporation deliberately injures in pursuit of gain, prosecute everyone... stockholder to CEO.
Bet things will clean themselves up, based on enlightened self interest.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
14,679 posts, read 14,641,413 times
Reputation: 15405
As long as corporations are legally allowed to own our politicians, nothing will change.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:53 PM
 
Location: texas
9,127 posts, read 7,941,561 times
Reputation: 2385
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
It's time to own up to the fact that sitting idly by and watching as millions of good-paying middle class jobs drifted overseas to China, India, and others over the course of the 1990s to present was a massive mistake. In other words, we didn't regulate and protect our economy appropriately, and we are now paying dearly for it. And neither Republicans nor Democrats know how to fix it.

What happens when you hollow out the bedrock structure of middle class jobs and replace them with meager service-based McJobs? Escalating private debt, impaired private consumption ability, increasing reliance on public assistance - and hence, increasing public debt. Oh, but you do get lots of cheap crap from China, and the corporations do really well.

Let's call out both Republicans and Democrats for their part in this.

Republicans: This is what happens when you aggressively de-regulate the economy in an age of globalization and mechanization. The free market thing was aligned with America's interests when the labor pool was largely self-contained; not so much when you open the floodgates and drastically change the mix of the labor pool. Great for corporations, great for foreigners, not so great for the rest of us. By helping the rich get richer and saying "*********" to the middle class, you have ironically become the greatest cheerleaders of the welfare state. Where do you think the person whose job got outsourced is likely to go, even with their new Wal-mart job that doesn't give them enough to live on? To the line for public assistance. And you don't realize that this problem will not take care of itself with further deregulation - those jobs are never coming back, and American wages cannot compete with the low-cost foreigners.

Democrats: You consider expanded entitlements to be "helping", but it's not real, sustainable help. Real help for America comes in the form of a strong middle class job structure. And you did nothing to stop any of this, because you're just as much purchased by corporate interests as are the Republicans. And the regulation you offer is not geared toward actually protecting or fostering American jobs; it's geared toward rote wealth redistribution. This does not work for long, because it just grows the debt. There is a big difference between being given a buck and earning a buck.

So we have Republicans, who watched American jobs go overseas and think that further deregulation would help things (it won't); and we have Democrats, who watched American jobs go overseas and think that further entitlement expansion would help things (it won't). It doesn't matter who wins, the nation is still more or less equally screwed.

To fix this problem would require some SMART economic regulation at this point. Those jobs are not coming back on their own. You need to let market mechanisms work, but you also need to have some protective safeguards for American workers. And you can't just let corporations displace the entire middle body of American jobs for the sake of profit of a few hundred people at the top. Smart regulation works in successful, high quality of life nations like Germany, Austria, and the Nordics, which are also all more solvent than we are. Everyone, go look at unemployment rates in Switzerland, Austria, Germany, and Norway.

Of course, this kind of a fix will never happen - too much like "socialism" - and so America will continue to limp along its present course with lots of arguments between Democrats and Republicans that accomplish nothing in the form of growing the middle class. The top few percents will do fabulously well, everyone else will watch their quality of life degrade for decades to come.
If this is your work product, it's awesome...much rep. if I could nit-pick a bit, I would add that these nations moderenized their infrastructure.

We have not made a plan or committment to do the same here...as of yet.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:56 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,184,586 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by tickyul View Post
Those jobs are NOT the USA's.......we must compete with the rest of the globe to attract and maintain those jobs in this country.

Guess what, for many companies, this country is no longer attractive to set up shop in.

Be very, very thankful for Kmartadelphia, Walmartville and similar....for the most part, that is the best we can do.
It's never this simple. China ignored any sort of common sense regulations to attract business at all costs. They allowed the companies pay their employee's next to nothing and work under conditions we would never accept here. You can't compete with that.

Once the businesses all left here prices have skyrocketed. I'm with the wife in a "Discount" shoe store. It was nothing to see cheap shoes made in China for up to $60. Nobody can't convince me that we couldn't profitably make cheap plastic shoes here for $60.

Some businesses are moving back. But to say "reckless deregulation" is the problem isn't totally correct either.
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Old 10-14-2013, 09:45 PM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,968,141 times
Reputation: 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post

Republicans: This is what happens when you aggressively de-regulate the economy in an age of globalization and mechanization. The free market thing was aligned with America's interests when the labor pool was largely self-contained; not so much when you open the floodgates and drastically change the mix of the labor pool.
This is one of the most idiotic bits of tripe ever posted here.

NO government IS EVER capable of regulating an economy. EVER.
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Old 10-14-2013, 09:51 PM
 
1,963 posts, read 1,822,485 times
Reputation: 844
a refreshing thread with truth.
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Old 10-14-2013, 09:53 PM
 
45,220 posts, read 26,431,296 times
Reputation: 24974
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwmdk View Post
This is one of the most idiotic bits of tripe ever posted here.

NO government IS EVER capable of regulating an economy. EVER.
Oh you mean 545 congress creatures aren't capable of predicting the wants and needs of 300 million individuals?
This will be news to many around here lol
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