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We should not stand for the method of operation that has not become commonplace in DC.
I don't care who you are or which political party you align yourself with. Letting ANY minority coalition say, "I don't like the way the legislation turned out for my side; I'm going to threaten the nation with default and force hundreds of thousands of people out of their jobs until I get my way" is bad for democracy.
That's what elections are for, people. There are winners and there are losers. That's where the "voice of the people" is heard. If it's a law, it's a law until it is repealed. You don't have to like it, but you do have to respect it if you want to be a participant in a democratic system.
The Constitution rightfully wanted division of power and checks and balances, but I doubt that the Founding Fathers would have contemplated that a few people would use the threat of default and government shutdown to sabotage approved law when they can't come up with the votes.
This can't be the way forward. It's not right now when Republicans don't like that they lost fair and square on Obamacare. And it won't be right one day in the future when Democrats lose fair and square on taxes or gun control. You have to respect outcomes, even if you don't like them. That is fundamental to our system of government.
We need to come up with a way to amend the Constitution that respects checks and balances but doesn't allow a small minority to tyrannize the nation with this degree of economic harm when they don't get their way.
we clearly don't live in a democracy, and never have. also, if the founders had their way, the worthless federal employees you're throwing a pity party for would be unemployed and in a ditch where they belong.
Just more whimpering from the weft. The world stock markets will finish the day more or less where they were shortly before the DC drama began and the market volatility jumped. Just profit taking opportunity for some.
Btw, the loyal opposition, usually from the back bench in England and the minority party in the U.S., is a fine old tradition of democracy. Only those unseasoned, unawares or too self-absorbed do not know this.
I'm a conservative, and I support fiscal conservatives, but i'm very put off by the brinkmanship as well. Typically, i'm a "stand your ground and beat'm up" kind of guy. But to be honest, I believe the GOP severely miscalculated what they could achieve with the current round of brinkmanship. I admit that I held out hope that maybe they were right and I was wrong in disagreeing with their tactics. But it's abundently clear that what they achieved wouldn't even fill up a thumbnails worth of braggadocio.
I'll admit, forthrightly, that the GOP got their asses handed to them in this battle. Now it's time to focus on the larger war associated with the next elections.
I agree with your assessment except for two points:
1) Democrats didn't win "fair and square" on Obamacare. They used parliamentary reconciliation, which is normally reserved for tax and spending bills, while simultaneously arguing that Obamacare is not a tax, while also buying votes via the Louisiana Purchase and Cornhusker Kickback because even moderate Democrats didn't like the bill. They then passed the bill without one single Republican vote. That's not "fair and square" by any stretch of the imagination.
Actually, they used reconciliation to amend it. The amendments pretty much all had to do with subsidy levels and taxes, which didn't violate the Byrd Rule. The original passing as follows:
On December 23, the Senate voted 60–39 to end debate on the bill: a cloture vote to end the filibuster by opponents. The bill then passed by a vote of 60–39 on December 24, 2009, with all Democrats and two independents voting for, and all Republicans voting against (except for Jim Bunning, who did not vote).[101] The bill was endorsed by the AMA and AARP.[102]
Conservatives like to blur the history, of course. And it doesn't matter if it was passed on party lines. They had the 60 votes to push it through, Republicans did not have enough to oppose it. That's what comes out of elections.
2) I do not support a Constitutional Amendment that debilitates the minority. That's called tyranny.[/quote]
The minority has a voice and has power; that power should not include threatening the nation with default if they can't get the majority to do what they want. That's called idiocy, as far as a system of government is concerned.
we clearly don't live in a democracy, and never have. also, if the founders had their way, the worthless federal employees you're throwing a pity party for would be unemployed and in a ditch where they belong.
Pi**ing on your fellow citizens. Pretty much what I would expect from you. Are you proud of this character trait of yours?
Then there's this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionsgators
I could think of much worse things to say about him, but I am a gentleman.
I shudder to think what you consider not a gentleman.
The founders never imagined our Money Printer in Chief.
Yeah, Bush was not even a glint in anyone's eye way back then.
Quote:
Mr. Bush, tax cuts and war spending were the biggest policy drivers of the swing from projected surpluses to deficits from 2002 to 2009.
In January 2009, just before President Obama took office, the budget office projected a $1.2 trillion deficit for 2009 and deficits in subsequent years, based on continuing Mr. Bush’s policies and the effects of recession. Mr. Obama’s policies in 2009 and 2010, including the stimulus package, added to the deficits in those years but are largely temporary.
First, the Bush tax cuts have had a huge damaging effect. If all of them expired as scheduled at the end of 2012, future deficits would be cut by about half, to sustainable levels.
I could have sworn there was a U.S. President that warned against this. That warned against getting involved in other countries problems and dividing ourselves into political parties.
We should not stand for the method of operation that has not become commonplace in DC.
I don't care who you are or which political party you align yourself with. Letting ANY minority coalition say, "I don't like the way the legislation turned out for my side; I'm going to threaten the nation with default and force hundreds of thousands of people out of their jobs until I get my way" is bad for democracy.
That's what elections are for, people. There are winners and there are losers. That's where the "voice of the people" is heard. If it's a law, it's a law until it is repealed. You don't have to like it, but you do have to respect it if you want to be a participant in a democratic system.
The Constitution rightfully wanted division of power and checks and balances, but I doubt that the Founding Fathers would have contemplated that a few people would use the threat of default and government shutdown to sabotage approved law when they can't come up with the votes.
This can't be the way forward. It's not right now when Republicans don't like that they lost fair and square on Obamacare. And it won't be right one day in the future when Democrats lose fair and square on taxes or gun control. You have to respect outcomes, even if you don't like them. That is fundamental to our system of government.
We need to come up with a way to amend the Constitution that respects checks and balances but doesn't allow a small minority to tyrannize the nation with this degree of economic harm when they don't get their way.
Our Founding Fathers would have handled this situation with pistol duels. There would have been a little talking, then someone would have called their political opponent a "liar", then someone would have been shot.
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