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It's more like one side at least attempts to communicate, welcome, and include a large majority of Americans and the other side are mostly elitist that does more insulting and degrading than they do talking and packaging their ideals in a way that Americans can understand, support, and rally around.
If you can provide a link that proves that the Democrats premeditated the shutdown and had actual tool kits on their website to download, for how to support a shutdown, we will all agree with you...I'll wait, but I will not hold my breath.
Were there guns to the Dems head that prevented them from negotiating before the shutdown? Was 2 billion dollars for a damn a bribe to buy a vote?
No matter what rhetoric you spew from the Dems they had a choice to try and work it out. Saying we sat down and it didn't work? Well not if there is no compromise and I don't know what was tried because no real specifics are out there other than well we tried but they wouldnt listen.
Speaking of lies. We have been told a great many lies by the dems lately. Their veracity is deeply in question. At least as far as I am concerned. I can deal with exaggeration. It's lies that are unacceptable.
As for a web site with tools? I never saw any from either party. I dont visit web sites from either party, I have no interest in their rhetoric.
If democrats voted not to increase the debt ceil after all that is what caused the shutdown and the economics of the monthly billing statement.. Would the democrats be who voted against raising a debt ceiling be guilty as charged.
Why did obama as senator in 2006 vote to not raise the debit ceiling.
Lets look at his answer.
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that “the buck stops here.” Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."
Senator Obama 2006
What is your response to that and its when the debt was 9 trillion!
Democrats just waited around to blame republicans, SOME republicans were trying to do the same thing OBAMA complained about in 2006 and wanted to vote on it in the house for 2 weeks, they sent bills to the senate which passed the senate and went to OBAMA that would have reopened the government and even FUNDED OBAMACARE delaying the TAX for 2 years. After all OBAMA changed it on his own that his unions and some businesses didn't have to PAY why can't the congress make that change. I suspect crickets in response to this.
First let me say that I do not agree with Obamacare and I want it to be repealed.
The Republicans wanted to delay Obamacare as an underhanded tactical move to eliminate it. Why would Obama support that? Obamacare success is dependent on the individual tax and memberships to survive, but could survive without a problem with the delays on the business side. The Delays on the business side not only benefited employers, but also their employees. Republicans know that the tax is essential and if Obama supported the delay, he'd be supporting the failure of Obamacare. Republicans spun it to meaning that he was "supporting his own unions and business affiliates."
If you ask me, and I know you're not, both you and sickofnyc are being bias and naive if you think that anyone in Senate, House, or Presidency, whether they be Democrat or Republican, gives a rats ass about solving the problem. American people on both sides of the aisle, businesses, and investors would all have to temporarily suffer great loses to be able to fix the debt issues. Both Democrats and Republican politicians know damn well that fixing the problem would be suicide both political and party wise. They all are grandstanding and putting on a show for all you stupid Americans.
Were there guns to the Dems head that prevented them from negotiating before the shutdown? Was 2 billion dollars for a damn a bribe to buy a vote?
No matter what rhetoric you spew from the Dems they had a choice to try and work it out. Saying we sat down and it didn't work? Well not if there is no compromise and I don't know what was tried because no real specifics are out there other than well we tried but they wouldnt listen.
Speaking of lies. We have been told a great many lies by the dems lately. Their veracity is deeply in question. At least as far as I am concerned. I can deal with exaggeration. It's lies that are unacceptable.
As for a web site with tools? I never saw any from either party. I dont visit web sites from either party, I have no interest in their rhetoric.
Again, you make the most sense, i applaud you. Lies don't get me started here. We have been told many by the dems, and for the life of me, even supporters, how can they justify this crap. The veracity in which they lie is unacceptable to me. No excuses, but over and over again, the scare tactics, and bully practices are what they do best. And there playing their hand at the blame game.
I don't like exaggeration period, but hate the lies and deceit so much gosh damn more. No rocket scientist needed to see thru to their lies, you can read people, if your atune to people, and also can see thru to their lies and deceit.
I don't like the stance Obama took, don't like the stance the Republicians took, they both could have worked on an agreement if they so chose too. The only losers thru all this are the people.
In my opinion, they both played games, and i don't like games played when peoples lives are at stake. And i am pissed at both sides, and the President, who could have ended this much sooner.
No guns to the thick headed stubborn Dems heads, none at all, and that says it all in a nutshell?
Again, you make the most sense, i applaud you. Lies don't get me started here. We have been told many by the dems, and for the life of me, even supporters, how can they justify this crap. The veracity in which they lie is unacceptable to me. No excuses, but over and over again, the scare tactics, and bully practices are what they do best. And there playing their hand at the blame game.
I don't like exaggeration period, but hate the lies and deceit so much gosh damn more. No rocket scientist needed to see thru to their lies, you can read people, if your atune to people, and also can see thru to their lies and deceit.
I don't like the stance Obama took, don't like the stance the Republicians took, they both could have worked on an agreement if they so chose too. The only losers thru all this are the people.
In my opinion, they both played games, and i don't like games played when peoples lives are at stake. And i am pissed at both sides, and the President, who could have ended this much sooner.
No guns to the thick headed stubborn Dems heads, none at all, and that says it all in a nutshell?
So you go to court, win the case, and then the defendant, who's also your business partner says to you, if you do not compromise with me over the case you just won, I'm not going to pay our workers or pay on our business loan. Because we're partners, all the paperwork needs both of our signatures to be valid, so you MUST compromise or it's your fault that people aren't going to be paid.... Why would anyone give in to this tactic? Why should you have to compromise and give up something that has been legally deemed through due process to be your right to have?
I'm rooting for the Republicans on THIS issue, but the way they went about it was completely STUPID. They hurt themselves more than anything. If they want Obamacare to be repealed, work on winning the votes to do so instead of working on d*cking over the American people because that's all this stunt accomplished in the end..
Last edited by DoniDanko; 10-17-2013 at 06:44 PM..
So you go to court, win the case, and then the defendant, who's also your business partner says to you, if you do not compromise with me over the case you just won, I'm not going to pay our workers or pay on our business loan. Because we're partners, all the paperwork needs both of our signatures to be valid, so you MUST compromise or it's your fault that people aren't going to be paid.... Why would anyone give in to this tactic? Why should you have to compromise and give up something that has been legally deemed through due process to be your right to have?
I'm rooting for the Republicans on THIS issue, but the way they went about it was completely STUPID. They hurt themselves more than anything. If they want Obamacare to be repealed, work on winning the votes to do so instead of working on d*cking over the American people because that's all this stunt accomplished in the end..
I agree, but the fact of the matter is that the shutdown didn't just happen. It wasn't a one sided debate. Bothsides have had time to come together to hammer out a budget. Both sides have had more than enough time to come to terms. No, both sides instead play the game of all my way or no way.
Yes the GOP refused to submit a clean bill. It never should have gotten to that point. This is a complete failure on both sides and from the top down.
The Democrats tried for 7 months to get the GOP to come to negotiate a budget and a way to avert the debt ceiling crunch.
The Republicans kept saying 'no'...until the shutdown. Then all of a sudden 'the mean old Democrats won't talk to us'.
Most people can see that the GOP is not being honest about their roles in this debacle. Even now they are trying to blame everyone from the media to seniors to various members of their own party (just check out what John McCain is saying about Louis Gohmert).
That "plan" should be to continue spending and fiscal irresponsibility, as usual. Our financial system, since 1913, has some problems "baked into the cake".
We will (and have) gone through periods of prosperity following times in which the government has increased spending (taking on more debt) and infusing money into the economy. The "multiplier" of government expenditures to economic expansion, unfortunately, has declined from post WW2 to the present. The Federal Reserve has created a situation in which the US should, and is forced, into deficit spending in order to expand the money supply, which has resulted in past instances into economic prosperity.
The problem becomes that with progression of the accumulated debt, there is an "increased cost" to expansion of the money supply (the US Treasury sells bonds, purchased by bankers, and "paid" by the Fed in the form of newly printed money) . We have ever increased "cost" of this money expansion (paid by the payment of bonds and the interest on the bonds, funded by the labor of US citizens through taxation) due to increased interest and principal payment on bonds.
One cannot simply "balance the budget" via increased taxes or reduced spending. In our current system, in which "the Fed" and bankers make money from the money swap of US Treasury bond sales; bankers buy US bonds (debt) and sell those bonds to the Fed at a profit. The fed "gives them money" (prints it), and the bankers give that money to the treasury (our government) in order to buy more bonds at a guaranteed profit (great deal)!
We are "the slaves" in this situation, in which the only real "wealth" in this system (given it is not backed by any redeemable assets) is the work, innovation, and sweat which the American worker provides to trade thier labor for this otherwise worthless paper. And so the cycle goes on.
The problem becomes that over time, due to monetary expansion, the "trade" of labor for US currency has, and will diminish over time. Thus the increased "borrowing" of the US government (selling bonds, which are bought by the bankers, and sold to the Federal Reserve in exchange for currency) tends to produce a diminished effect on increasing prosperity in the economy. "Retiring debt" via balancing the budget and buying back bonds, becomes deflationary, reducing the money supply and forcing an obligatory phase of misery (Depression).
What is one to do?
1. continue expansion of the money supply by the Treasury "selling" bonds, purchased by the Fed and creating more money from nowhere. The effect of "stimulus", of course, decreases with accumulated debt and interest payment on those bonds. Our current "money expansion" has not filtered into the economy, as it has been used to re-supply reserves of banks whiped out by the crisis of 2008. Further, this "expansion of money supply" by the Fed purchasing more bonds has a reduced effect by the net accumulation of the debt.
One could say, that, given that the "money supply" is not circulating, is that the Fed should simply print a bunch more money. This only becomes "inflationary" if the money is in fact, released by the banks and results in an increased supply of money in the economy (the major source of monetary expansion). If not, some contend that printing a "whole bunch of money" is perfectly fine (it actually might be true).
2. Consider private bank notes in circulation for currency. This was a widespread practice in early America and was based (as are modern currency exchanges) on the credit and faith of other investors on the ability of redemption of financial instruments. Stronger, regional currencies, based on real assets and productive local economies, could supplant the US dollar and let it die "a slow death" and be replaced by stronger regional currencies. Keep in mind that "currency" is not "money"- they are different.
3. Eliminate the Federal Reserve, restore the printing and circulation of currency to Congress, and "pay down" the federal debt via increased taxes and or reduced revenues. This, by a contraction in money supply, would result in an obligatory depression and a worldwide financial duress. This would be "taking the medicine", accepting the financial misery, and altering the system of worldwide central banking, which has (despite its guarantees of eliminating the extremes of the business cycle) has magnified the depth and magnitude of "normal" business cycles.
4. Allow and encourage the "break up" of the US, in which new entities no longer suffer from the debt burden or financial consequences of the Fed or the US dollar. This, of course, would result in a brief period of economic depression (assets, in the form of bonds, would suddenly become worthless) yet would create a "re-jiggering" of relative currency strength in the absence of the compulsion to purchase a tenuous, yet necessary, world currency in the US dollar.
Like most 'libertarian' ideas, these things were tried in the 19th century and were such miserable mistakes that we began, thank you Teddy Roosevelt, to find new ways to do things.
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Republicans need a plan
