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Now we're supposed to believe these same people think these "bronze" policies, which do cover an annual physical and preventive services, far more than some people's present policies cover, is inadequate?
The press (even Obama's former cheerleaders ) has been covering people's disappointment and shock regarding their Obamacare options.
Will Obamacare increase insurance premiums to high levels? I don't know.
But I know one thing. Republicans are able to see all the problems with Obamacare, but republicans refuse to fix Obamacare. If republicans would fine tune Obamacare it would save all of us a sh-- load of money.
But today's republicans no longer have intelligent and civilized conversations. Look at the republicans in this forum, they all hear something on Fox news and then bum-rush the forum like a pack of wolves attacking Obama.
The republicans refuse to see the other sides points, while they fight to tarnish the democrats, so they can achieve the one single thing they want, and its something like this,
The following shows the other side of Obamacare, it's a copy/paste of a post I made in another thread.
Obamacare was modeled after Romneycare (the health care law Mitt Romney passed as governor of Massachusetts.) MIT economist Jonathan Grube helped design both Romneycare and Obamacare. And Romneycare has lowered premiums in that market by about 50 percent relative to the national trend. And it only increased government spending by 1%.
And according to the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), 6.8 million American consumers saved an estimated $1.2 billion on health insurance premiums in 2012, due to the “rate review” provision of the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare), which brought unprecedented accountability to slow the growth of health insurance premiums.
The bureaucrats fumbling their way through Obamacare have come up with complicated formulas to decide how much each of us will pay for Obamacare, once the mandate forces us to comply. The formulas have not been released, having been kept secret for some reason.
But some people have sat down and gone through the Federal and State exchanges to find the rates required for a young person, an older person, and a family of four, for each state.
Most people in most states will see large increases. A few will see decreases.
Click on the attached thumbnail of a table of average rates under the old system, and rates from the Obamacare Exchanges you are now required to pay (or face stiff penalties).
Can't say that I'm flabbergasted by this. The majority of increases are in red states that consistently record the highest levels of poverty, take more federal dollars than they give, and whose states are trying to opt out of Obamacare altogether.
Fact: 15% of Americans have some type of "pre existing condition"
Fact: 50 million Americans do not have health insurance
Fact: 50-60% of Americans have access to employer health care. Most employer health plans do not exclude against pre existing conditions.
Fact 15% have Medicare which does not exclude against pre existing conditions
Fact 15% have medicaid which does not exclude against pre existing conditions
Fact 10% have VA/tricare which does not exclude against pre existing conditions.
Fact:5% of Americans buy insurance on the indivudal market that DOES potentially exclude against pre existing conditions.
So do the math. If 5% of Americans buy individual insurance that can deny them coverage. And of that amount 15% have pre existing conditions. We are talking at most 2 million Americans who potentially can be denied insurance on the indivudal market. And the vast marjority have minor pre existing conditions like well controlled hypertension or diabetes. So we are really talking 1-2 million who are the "true uninsurables". That's not a lot relative to the 315-330 million Americans the ACA is trying to help.
Now let's break down the 50 million who currently do not have health care.
Fact: 15 million of those 50 million have household incomes over 75k a year
Fact: 15-20 million of those uninsured are under age 25. The vast marjority of young adults do not have any major health issues and can easily get a major comprehensive medical plan with a $2000-2500 deductible that's HSA compatible for less than what they pay for a night out on the town partying or less than one months iPhone/android smartphone indivudal phone bill on Verizon or ATT n
You guys see my point?
1: the people affected by pre existing conditions on the indivdual market is extremely small who cannot get health insurance. Employer/Medicare/medicaid/Va plans all cover pre existing conditions. Most employer plans have no waiting period for pre existing conditions as well
2. The 50 million uninsured is completely over blown. The "true" number is probably closer to 15-20 million and the ACA is going to put 15 million on the free medicaid yet leave an estimated 30 million Americans still without insurance.
3. Oh the popular keep kids till age 26 means extemely little except add to the insurance company bottom line. Again I go back to young adults who can get their own plans for less than $100/month a comprehensive major medical HSA compatible $2000-2500 deductible.
So the ACA ends up helping about 15 million medicaid patients. It's free care. It helps 2-3 million with pre existing medical conditions on the individual market.
And it's going to cost 2-3 trillion and still leave the same 30 million people without health insurance.
I was looking at one insurer's site where they still offer the "old" plans alongside the new ones for 2014. In most cases the rates were the same or lower for the new plans that were essentially the same as the old ones reflecting, I think, the competitive nature of the exchanges, the likelihood of getting paid, the greater number of younger people anticipated or who knows. The anti-Obamacare chorus so prevalent on this forum is going to continue to post misleading and irrelevant or downright inaccurate information from now till the cows come home. So, once again, I urge people who seriously need and want insurance to ignore all the bs about how poorly the website runs, how much this or that will cost, and get go look for themselves on their state exchanges or the fed one as appropriate. If those don't work, go to ehealthinsurance and to individual company websites like BCBS whose names you recognize (note the "brand" names may be the highest priced ones). P&OC is no place to get unbiased information.
Here are some posts, some from well before Obamacare was enacted (March 2010) touting the wonderful benefits of high-deductible plans. One even says that after health care reform is passed, you won't be able to buy high-d plans!
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Those who buy private insurance now, subdivided into specific risk groups.
Mandating that ALL individuals buy insurance spreads that cost to those who would ordinarily forego insurance, or only buy catastrophic policies, aka the young and healthy.
Obamacare WILL cost the young and healthy more. Given that Dem voters tend to be younger, have the Dems adequately assessed how willing the young are to pay much more for insurance to subsidize everyone else?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J
If you find it is inadequate, then you did not do your homework.
As far as running to the ER, the federal government should not force a business to provide any service without payment.
What if I only wanted catastrophic insurance and was willing to pay for the little stuff out of pocket? I can't shop around for one of those policies. The government mandates minimum coverage for health insurance. I really don't like paying for gynecological coverage when I obviously don't need it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
Total hospital costs will not be lowered. Currently, the system absorbs the cost of the uninsured by passing it on to the insurred. Under obamacare, we'll just pay for their insurance AND the government agencies overseeing it, which will drive the costs UP not down.
It would be cheaper to just mandate that everyone has to have insurance and create a government plan you can buy into if you don't have one through an employer.
One thing I don't get is that if the government really cares about people being insured, why isn't the cost of a policy a write off? One thing I have never gotten is why the cost of my premiums is pre tax because I pay through an employer while someone who buys their own pays with post tax dollars.
What we really need to do is go back to the way insurance used to be when it was cheap. It only covered major issues. You paid as you went for the minor stuff. It's called major medical. It's expensive because people want it to cover things like birth control. Stuff you should be covering on your own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo
There should be catastrophic healthcare insurance and that is all. That would save all these petty arguments. You need insurance for big expenses, not small ones. Car insurance does not cover maintenance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu
1. Lower the cost of healthcare. Most people only need catastrophic health insurance. Regular checkups should cost less and be paid for out of pocket. Routine tests should also cost much less. Medicine should cost less too.
2. Hospitals should also run 24 hour health clinics adjacent to the ER entrance. That way, people with minor medical issues can see a basic and less expensive clinician for their problems. No need to tie up expensive trauma staff for just a bad cold or fever.
3. Put a cap on malpractice suit claims and limit how much a lawyer can charge for a settlement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok
In light of the ruling on "ObamaCare" that will likely come out tomorrow, I thought it would be a good time to discuss what we feel would be the best way to reform healthcare in the US.
I am not supportive of "ObamaCare" or of a single-payer system, though I understand why people favor both.
This would be my plan for healthcare reform:
1) Allow insurance to be sold across state lines, increasing competition.
2) Discourage employer-provided insurance. More people would be buying their own insurance and would be more aware of the costs. Competition would drive rates down and consumers would see how exorbinant the costs actually are and would force insurance companies to reduce their rates. Perhaps tax breaks could be given to individuals/couples, and not to employers, for buying insurance. Allow health insurance to be offered in more of a free market.
3) Shift co-pays more to an actual percentage of the costs, to provide further incentives for people to not use healthcare excessively.
4) Give incentives for preventive care.
5) Shift as much care as possible from ER's to clinics where costs are much lower. Require medium-sized and large hospitals receiving federal or state funds to have clinics open 24/7 in addition to ER's, or to refer patients to clinics nearby instead of seeing them in the ER's when possible.
6) Encourage plans with high deductibles to allow people to use insurance for only emergencies/unexpected costs.
7) Focus more on collection when uninsured people receive care at ER's and don't pay their bills. Obviously many of them cannot pay, but some can.
8) Reduce the term of drug patents from 20 years to 7 years. This would be long enough to provide an incentive to drug companies, but would allow much cheaper generic drugs to be used far more often.
9) Have high-risk pools for those who are high-risk who insurers are unwilling to insure.
10) Tort reform.
What would be your plan?
Quote:
Originally Posted by brentwoodgirl
We went on a high deductible plan last year. We had to pay the first $5,000 out of pocket and then our insurance kicked in. Family of 5, 3 with asthma, 2 with severe allergies who got weekly allergy shots. We have 4 monthly prescriptions.
Even with weekly allergy shots, 3 asthma attacks, one ER visit, 6 specialist visits, and a 10 day virus that required 3 doctor's visits and a host of tests, we didn't go over our $5,000.
We spent right at $4,800.
Having a high deductible made us take charge of our healthcare. We changed our all our prescriptions to a cheaper pharmacy. We figured out hospital costs and which antibiotics were free at different stores before anyone got sick, and I kept the list with me. If a doctor talked to us about having a test done, I disccussed the fees and benefits before we had it done. I made sure every doctor we saw understood we were paying for everything out of pocket so they kept that in mind when ordering tests and prescriptions. And if we got a prescription that was more than $50, I would always call and talk about other options.
It's amazing how much health care you can afford when you take charge of it yourself. And had something catastrophic happened, our insurance would have covered us from major expense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
It would be much better to have some kind of insurance for catestrophic care only. Let all people pay their own routine doctor care, buy their own meds if they want them.
Everyone can pay for a routine physician office visit, and there can be cheaper alternatives. A better approach would be to bring the costs of health care down by freeing things up but Obama care is the exact opposite of freeing things up.
the problem is general insurance , where everyone WANTS to have EVERY sniffle visit paid for
I think costs would go down dramaticly if we brought back hospitalization, and got rid of the standard insurance
why should you have insurance pay for a once a year check up that costs less than a hundred bucks...pay for it out of your pocket, and let the insurance cover the BIG STUFF (a hospitaliztion plan)
insurance and government is the main reason that health care costs so much
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm
you wouldnt kid me would you?
back when i was a kid, health insurance was in fact handled this way. you paid the doctor when you went for a check up, and you paid for your prescription drugs, the insurance covered hospital stays and lab tests and other major medical expenses.
and auto insurance is the same way. you pay for the minor stuff, and some of the major stuff, but the insurance pays to repair collision damage, and pay the other driver if you are the one at fault. and i dont give a damn what rush says about insurance, i have felt this way for a long time.
but if you want the health insurance to cover everything, fine, you can pay the extra money needed to do so, just remember that you are part of the problem with costly health insurance because you dont take the time to shop for better prices on doctors visits. remember that every dollar the insurance companies pay out has to come from somewhere. and just like auto insurance, if they pay out even on the minor items, then rates are going to go up for everyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal
That is exactly how catastrophic high deductible plans are designed. Insurance was never supposed to pay for all of anyone's medical expenses. Why do people think that it was? Even though the high deductible plan does not cover these tests they do pay partially for the allowed charges and they lower the bill by rejecting the "unalloweable" charges.
Do people actually not budget health care savings into their monthly/yearly expense plans? Do they not save money specifically to be spent on health care needs be it tomorrow or 20 years from now, just as they might save for a house or a vehicle? This is something I've always done. Odds are as I age that I am going to have health issues that need to be addressed and need to be paid for so I'd better have that figured into my savings plan and budget.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MainelyJersey
Again, I point to the loss of the option of a catastrophic coverage plan for young adults. Under Obamacare, this will no longer be available, and as you noted, it's frequently the ideal plan for the young, healthy adult.
They will now HAVE to purchase a plan with mandated levels of coverage, or pay the penalty. The CC plan is currently popular among those in their 20's. How many in the future will opt to pay the penalty, rather than higher premiums for the expanded plans? And who will ultimately pay the healthcare expenses in the event of a major accident/illness then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm
one more time, the insurance company would pay for catastrophic care after $2500, lab tests, and prescription drugs, and I WOULD PAY THE DOCTORS. you really need to read everything posted, not just pick and choose. doctors visits are not that expensive.
but let me ask you this, does your auto insurance cover everything your car needs? does it pay for oil changes? new tires? trips to the shop for maintenance and repairs? a repaint when the time comes? replacing light bulbs and fuses? why should health insurance pay for everything when all that does is make health care costs higher?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zz4guy
Stop buying $1,000,000 McMansions on a $50k household income.
Stop buying $50,000 SUVs
Stop eating at Applebees every night.
Skip the low deductible insurance and buy catastrophic insurance.
Eat healthy.
Take responsibility for your own actions and STOP LOOKING TO TAKE OTHER PEOPLES' MONEY TO PAY FOR YOUR OWN DAMN PROBLEMS!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
Who is getting a loan for a $1,000,000 house on a $50,000 income?
Ditto the loan for the SUV.
Who is eating at Applebee's every night?
As above. While I agree there are some poor money mangers out there, most of the "paycheck to paycheck" people aren't spending money on a lot of frivilous stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank
You're wrong. It would cover everything we need and want....and still a bunch of crap that we don't need or want. I've gotten the quotes and the details, our family would be nicely covered for just over $300 per month. However, any type of HR3200 plan will severely shrink (if not eliminate) the private market and HDHP's won't be legal in the health insurance exchange so we'll be out of luck. We'll end up paying for the exchange plans that have to cover everything down to a trip to the doctor to get zit cream. I'd rather save thousand of dollars on premiums and pay for the small stuff OOP.
Crazy right...actually wanting to pay for some of our own health care to keep the overall costs down. We must be NUTS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA
While I agree that our current health care system is a bit of a mess, I don't view "the solution" as much of an improvement.
I rather see alternative plans offered, such as a minimal cost insurance plan that pays catastrophic coverage. By this I mean a plan in which you pay something like the first $3,000 of annual medical expenses yourself, then 20% of the next $10,000, and then it would kick in with 100% coverage.
This would cost a lot less than current coverage, yet would help prevent financial problems from health related issues. It would also discourage patient abuse of the system, due to the high out of pocket initial cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahSal
Repeating what I noted previously: Eliminate insurance companies from the equation (except for catastrophic health insurance) and pay your doctor as you go. I'd wager that then the *average* pp annual health care costs would be lower than that person's current health insurance premiums. Also reduce or cap medical mal-practice awards, thereby reducing a doctor's/hospital's mal-practice insurance premiums, thereby reducing the amount he/she/it has to charge patients.
Now some of these self-same people are shedding crocodile tears about these high-deductible plans!
If we did go to catastrophic care only we would need to rework the system. My monthly medications show retail at about $16,000 a month. Medicare pays $3,000 or so. You need to get rid of that markup to make catastrophic work. Now it could all work if you have an insurance co in the way enforcing true pricing...but without that the individual payer gets the shaft.
That might be one interesting medical reform. Require that medical service suppliers charge uniform fees.
Your car insurance has medical coverage,since you were in a car accident.
I have been purchasing ins. for 36 years and have not seen the system stabilize till 2010 with the beginning of Obamacare (ACA). Rate have slowed down and I received my first rebate this year ($700).
You miss the point, a car accident was an example of unexpected catastrophic health care, so go pick some other example.
Your insurance may have stabilized, but other folks have seen the opposite, yours is the odd man out.
Here are some posts, some from well before Obamacare was enacted (March 2010) touting the wonderful benefits of high-deductible plans. One even says that after health care reform is passed, you won't be able to buy high-d plans!
Now some of these self-same people are shedding crocodile tears about these high-deductible plans!
Those high deductible plans were for people who actually desired to go that way, a high deductible with low premiums. Not everyone wanted a high deductible plan. Now 90% of us are forced into higher premiums along with higher deductibles.
Before 0bamaCare it was about the right to choose what was best for you and yours, now it's buy 0bamaCare policies or get punished by the IRS.
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) has been covering people's disappointment and shock regarding their Obamacare options. 
Even though the high deductible plan does not cover these tests they do pay partially for the allowed charges and they lower the bill by rejecting the "unalloweable" charges.
