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Old 10-21-2013, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Between a rock and a hard place
42 posts, read 32,862 times
Reputation: 23

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The ACA and all other single-payer pipedreams do absolutely nothing but exacerbate this whole healthcare "conundrum" we find ourselves in. It baffles me that the federal government feels that it has the keys to this solution, yet it alone is the cause of high healthcare costs and the primary reason our healthcare payment system is so innately screwed up. Democrats seem to feel that causing those who have planned adequately to bear the burden of those who haven't is somehow an adjustment on fairness. Well...it isn't. If you the Left is sincere in it's pursuit of fairness, it needs to work with the GOP on addressing costs, tearing down borders to insurance, and de-coupling insurance from employment.

Regardless of your party affiliation, please read the link below as objectively as possible. I know the source will turn away some of our friends on the left, but please acknowledge the ideas.



5 Ways to Solve Health Care | Cato Institute
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Old 10-21-2013, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Holly Springs, NC USA
3,457 posts, read 4,653,554 times
Reputation: 1907
These are great ideas but they will never be implemented as they are too free market enterprise and the government wants to control health care now. This has never been about providing cheaprer health care or better health care for people, it has been about control.

The ironic thing is that the Republicans presented similar bullet points to the Democrats years ago in order to bring down the cost of healthcare and they were ignored. Now we are all going to pay very very dearly for that with more expensive, poorer health services.
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Old 10-21-2013, 10:47 AM
 
Location: S.E. US
13,163 posts, read 1,695,729 times
Reputation: 5132
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHouse9 View Post
These are great ideas but they will never be implemented as they are too free market enterprise and the government wants to control health care now. This has never been about providing cheaprer health care or better health care for people, it has been about control.

The ironic thing is that the Republicans presented similar bullet points to the Democrats years ago in order to bring down the cost of healthcare and they were ignored. Now we are all going to pay very very dearly for that with more expensive, poorer health services.
Sad, but true.
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Old 10-21-2013, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Between a rock and a hard place
42 posts, read 32,862 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound View Post
Sad, but true.
Democrats have no interest in seriously resolving healthcare costs. They do, however have interest in building their support network and lets be honest...more people needing the network is more voters. Plain and simple.

Politics is business and the Democrats are selling free insurance.
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Old 10-21-2013, 11:42 AM
 
Location: S.E. US
13,163 posts, read 1,695,729 times
Reputation: 5132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wahoo86 View Post
Democrats have no interest in seriously resolving healthcare costs. They do, however have interest in building their support network and lets be honest...more people needing the network is more voters. Plain and simple.

Politics is business and the Democrats are selling free insurance.
It's always easy to give away something that isn't yours to give. Democrats have perfected it into an art form.
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Old 10-21-2013, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Between a rock and a hard place
42 posts, read 32,862 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound View Post
It's always easy to give away something that isn't yours to give. Democrats have perfected it into an art form.
Not only that, they've successfully marketed the individual being robbed as the bad-guy. It's an interesting story when you think about it. They've made it seem as though the robber and the benefactor of the robbery are the heroes and the victim is the villian.
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Old 10-21-2013, 11:53 AM
 
Location: texas
9,127 posts, read 7,943,324 times
Reputation: 2385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wahoo86 View Post
The ACA and all other single-payer pipedreams do absolutely nothing but exacerbate this whole healthcare "conundrum" we find ourselves in. It baffles me that the federal government feels that it has the keys to this solution, yet it alone is the cause of high healthcare costs and the primary reason our healthcare payment system is so innately screwed up. Democrats seem to feel that causing those who have planned adequately to bear the burden of those who haven't is somehow an adjustment on fairness. Well...it isn't. If you the Left is sincere in it's pursuit of fairness, it needs to work with the GOP on addressing costs, tearing down borders to insurance, and de-coupling insurance from employment.

Regardless of your party affiliation, please read the link below as objectively as possible. I know the source will turn away some of our friends on the left, but please acknowledge the ideas.



5 Ways to Solve Health Care | Cato Institute
Your 5 ways needs to be updated.


Quote:

Basing insurance on employment also means that if you lose your job, you are likely to end up uninsured. Worse, once you’ve lost insurance, it can be hard to get new coverage, especially if you have a pre-existing condition.

Changing from employer to individual insurance requires changing the tax treatment of health insurance. Employer-provided insurance should be treated the same as other compensation for tax purposes: that is, as taxable income. To offset the increased tax, workers should receive a standard deduction, a tax credit, or expanded Health Savings Accounts (HSAs), regardless of whether they receive insurance through their job or purchase it on their own.
Both COBRA and ACA provide for that. How old is this suggestion?
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Old 10-21-2013, 11:53 AM
 
4,130 posts, read 4,461,152 times
Reputation: 3041
1) Would be nice to have that. Their first part of #1 invalidates their second part that if you made insurance not based on your employment then if you lose your job you still have insurnce...because you still have to pay for it. It would also be nice that if they cite studies, provide a link to it, because Parente talks about making an alternative to the ACA with high deductibles for McCain...not de-linking it from employment.

2) Insurance companies are big, too big really, but with size comes larger insurance pools and cost savings. Personally I agree with their point here.

3) Employering people who are not doctors or trained medical professionals to provide patient care is the most insane idea I have ever seen. I can see increasing the number of mid level providers (PAs/NPs) to provide more cost effective care...but naturopaths?

I guess if people get treatments for car accidents with herbs and crystals...there will be fewer people making medical claims.

4) Fixed vouchers for Medicare recipiants? That's already been debated and rejected. It was a center of Romney/Ryan's plan, and resoundly rejected by Americans.

5) Block grants for Medicaid? It was a center of Romney/Ryan's plan, and resoundly rejected by Americans as well with an estimated 14 million more people being unisured from current block grant proposals by Kaiser.
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Old 10-21-2013, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Holly Springs, NC USA
3,457 posts, read 4,653,554 times
Reputation: 1907
I wonder if idiots on the left realize that health insurance is actually insurance which is a risk based product. It is not health insurance "to pay all of my bills whenever I want them to do so".

The bottom line is that pre-existing conditions are more expensive to treat. That is a fact and a hard reality.

Obamacare/ACA was supposed to reduce health care costs and lowere insurance premiums. It has done neither overall. But the worst part is that it makes people think that health care costs and insurance premiums are the same thing and they are not. If the Democrats had listened to the Republicans proposals on how to reduce actual cost of health care services, maybe we would all be better off but they chose to sell a plan that is not what the represented. And it is hurting everyone.
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Old 10-21-2013, 12:12 PM
 
Location: NC
1,672 posts, read 1,771,510 times
Reputation: 524
Interesting view points but remember Single Payer has been implemented succesfully in most other first world countries; many did have a rocky start but after the first years they are for the most part a success and way more cost effective then our health care system.

I am still surprised why business wants to be in the business of providing health care as a benefit? They should support someone else providing it. Also, most people (who aren't super wealthy) don't mind the cost through taxation over time because it provides something private insurance has a difficult time achieving: being free of stress about healthcare coverage.

Obamacare is the conservative style implementation to national healthcare (to combat Hillary Care), so the only place to go is single payer after this, so keep on hammering on Obamacare as being the worst thing ever if you really want single payer folks...
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