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I assume it is hot to the normal level, in other words, I'd assume McD's and BK's coffee were equally hot. McD's screwed up, by making their coffee substantially hotter.
They paid, and truthfully, they should have fired the execs who chose such a reckless path. This was an error that should have looked bad looking ahead, not just in hindsight.
According to the documents, they DID serve their coffee at higher temperatures than the industry norm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn
No need to assume, as always, I respect the final decision of our court system. The case was tried, the verdict was read..no need for any assumptions to impede on the result offered by our excellent, fair process in place.
Yes, the jury spoke and I happen to agree with them. Not always (I'm usually on the defense side) but in this case, I did agree with the jury.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooleys1300
And McDonald's execs weren't stupid when the made a corporate decision to serve coffee at 190 degrees?
What is the point of serving coffee so hot that no one can drink it for a half an hour without getting burned?
Yes, the lady was stupid.... but so was McDonald's and their stupidity should hurt them as much as her stupidity hurt her.
The facts proven in the case were that McDonald's had exhibited callous, wanton, and reckless disregard for the safety of its customers. The jury found the plaintiff 20% responsible and McDonald's 80% responsible. The plaintiff did not sue for millions. The jury awarded an amount equal to two days worth of McDonald's revenue from coffee sales, which was millions. The judge immediately slashed that award back substantialy. Final damages were ultimately decided out of court.
Propagandists of course distorted the case to twist it away from being a story criminal corporate disregard for public safety, and into evidence of the need for tort reform and how dastardly liberal trial lawyers were making a mockery of justice. The moral of the story here is not to pay attention to stupid corporate propaganda. These people lie for a living.
Absolutely on the mark with this post.
This case got me out of jury duty once, when the attorney questioned me he asked, "I am trying to select jurors for this case that aren't going to give awards like the 'wild jurors on that McDonald case.'" When I said, "I actually read that case and the jurors weren't wild. Testimony was presented that McDonalds was warned numerous times times that the coffee was too hot and they chose to do nothing. The jury awarded punitive damages equal to two-day's sales of coffee." Needless to say, I was not selected for that jury.
McDonald's served their coffee at temperatues 20-30 degrees hotter than other fast food outlets. Their corporate mandated and enforced serving temperature was 50 degrees higher than recommended by burn institutes. .
was there a WARNING on the CUP, that the coffe is HOT....YES
she did, after all, spill the coffee into her lap all by herself. The car was stopped, so she presumably was not bumped to cause the spill. Indeed she chose to hold the coffee cup between her knees instead of any number of safer locations as she opened it. Should she have taken more responsibility for her own actions.
the coffee was NOT TOO HOT
Coffee is supposed to be served in the range of 185 degrees! The National Coffee Association recommends coffee be brewed at "between 195-205 degrees Fahrenheit for optimal extraction" and drunk "immediately". If not drunk immediately, it should be "maintained at 180-185 degrees Fahrenheit." (Home - National Coffee Association)
fact the coffee was NOT too hot..infact it was at the RECOMMENDED temp of 180....remember water(coffee) doesnt BOIL until 212
she got the 'stella' award of 2 million because she was stupid
and OMG the coffee was too hot......not....now I have to HEAT the coffe from MCd's up because its NOT HOT ENOUGH..because of that 'stella'
Coffee is supposed to be served in the range of 185 degrees! The National Coffee Association recommends coffee be brewed at "between 195-205 degrees Fahrenheit for optimal extraction" and drunk "immediately". If not drunk immediately, it should be "maintained at 180-185 degrees Fahrenheit." (Home - National Coffee Association)
fact the coffee was NOT too hot..infact it was at the RECOMMENDED temp of 180....remember water(coffee) doesnt BOIL until 212
Be careful. There are a number of people on this board who take offence to posting facts.
Yes, the Shriners Burn Institute standards of the time, and transcripts and attorneys' notes from the Liebeck case and a precedent third-degree burns case involving McDonalds coffee in Houston in 1988 that was referenced during the Liebeck trial.
Last edited by fairlaker; 11-05-2013 at 03:35 PM..
Most of us were not aware of the facts. This happens too often when we rely on blurbs in the media and don't research the facts. And politicians using the misfortune of this woman to promote their own agenda is disgusting.
I did do some research there, without clicking on the link (I will after I hit send)
She was with her nephew in the car which was stopped so that she could put in the milk or cream etc. When she took the cover off there was too much coffee in the cup and it overflowed onto her lap giving her third degree burns through sweatpants. At first all she wanted was for McDonalds to pay her medical bills, they refused. There had been about 700 similiar cases. It was revealed, I think via leaked memo, that McDonalds knew their coffee was too hot but had determined that it was cheaper to settle each case by itself instead of actually doing something about it.
Be careful. There are a number of people on this board who take offence to posting facts.
The facts are that Ms Liebeck used the product as intended. The facts are that coffee at such temperatures causes third degree burns in 2-5 seconds. Third degree burns require skin grafts, debridement, and tens of thousands of dollars in medical expenses. The facts are that McDonalds offered $800. The facts are that McDonalds served drive-thru coffee in the same flimsy styrofoam cups used for inside service, having rejected the idea of sturdier cups because the price would have been too high. The facts are that McDonalds already had more than 700 similar burn cases in their files and had setttled them prior to trial for as much as $500,000. The facts are that McDonalds was more than well aware of foreseeable risk of serious injury to its customers and did nothing about it. The facts are that this is the definition of negligence. The facts are that in a mere four hours, a state court jury found that McDonald's had exhibited callous, wanton, and reckless disregard for the safety of the public. They had debated penalties as high as $10 million. That's how angered they were by the evidence they saw and heard.
She was with her nephew in the car which was stopped so that she could put in the milk or cream etc. When she took the cover off there was too much coffee in the cup and it overflowed onto her lap giving her third degree burns through sweatpants. At first all she wanted was for McDonalds to pay her medical bills, they refused. There had been about 700 similiar cases. It was revealed, I think via leaked memo, that McDonalds knew their coffee was too hot but had determined that it was cheaper to settle each case by itself instead of actually doing something about it.
It was her grandson. The cup was not "too full". It simply buckled as the lid was removed, dumping the entire contents into the victim's lap. The "leaked memo" was actualy pre-trial discovery, a standard legal process. The rest is about right.
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