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According to her lawyer, "We bought a product. It was used as intended." And to him, those were the facts.
Unless I'm mistaken, crotch washing isn't one of the intended uses for coffee. But then, maybe that's just me.
Spilling a product that is pure liquid is completely forseeable by the maker of that product. This is particularly the case when its dispensed to people in a moving automobile. A particular misuse is only a defense when (1) either a warning is given; or (2) or that particular misuse is unforseeable. If you are actually interested in examples, I will provide them.
Your comment about "crotch washing" is utterly ridiculous. It was spilled on her crotch by accident. She never intended to use it to wash that area of the body.
Surely you have better arguments to make?
On the serious side, this may be something for you to think about. You see how the opinion is running against McDonald's in this thread. Rather, than making the typical right wing "class warfare" blather, you might actually read some of what's been written here. Corporate America is not popular these days. Smart people would ask why and try to fix some of the problems. Many of us perceive corporate America as wanting the benefits of the legal system (tax law, collections, enforcement of contracts, etc.) but being unwilling to accept the responsibilities that go along with it (duty to compensate people it injures, being sued in a court of law by someone seeking to redress his/her grievances).
What's sauce for the goose ought to be sauce for the gander. However, in America the wealthy never stop seeking special "perks" from the system that the rest of us don't get.
I used to drink McD coffee in those days. Everyone knew when you bought their coffee, it was HOT. That's the way people wanted it. I was living in Wis. People in the north in winter in those areas like it hot, because it helps you warm up on cold days. The complainant was just suing and blaming someone else for her own carelessness. No one wants cold or luke warm coffee. Now you can't get it hot, even if you want it. Thanks a lot to another bunch of lawyers that have helped to make life worse for everyone else.
I decrie [sic] personal responsibility and defend corporate irresponsibility because some woman can't keep her cup of coffee upright? Oh please.
Had McDonalds not sold it to her through a drive up window while she was at the wheel of a car I doubt there would have been a case. If you want to profit from such a situation then you accept some responsibility for the situation. Simple. What's so hard to understand?
Why are you unwilling to demand responsibility of McDonalds? Something social, you feel big shots are entitled to things the rest of us aren't, like the nobility of Medieval times? Are you programmed that way?
I used to drink McD coffee in those days. Everyone knew when you bought their coffee, it was HOT. That's the way people wanted it. I was living in Wis. People in the north in winter in those areas like it hot, because it helps you warm up on cold days. The complainant was just suing and blaming someone else for her own carelessness. No one wants cold or luke warm coffee. Now you can't get it hot, even if you want it. Thanks a lot to another bunch of lawyers that have helped to make life worse for everyone else.
Where can't you find hot coffee? The standard serving temperature these days is 160-170 degrees Fahrenheit at places like McDonald's and Starbucks. Which can still cause third degree burns in under one second...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayou91
Hot Water Causes Third Degree Burns… …in 1 second at 156º
…in 2 seconds at 149º
…in 5 seconds at 140º
…in 15 seconds at 133º
I'm not saying that companies need to make all of their coffee below 133F, but back in the day when they were serving 160º+ coffee without warnings, protective coffee cup sleeves, or those special lids was irresponsible.
Just an FYI for those who are still stating that Mrs. Liebeck received millions of dollars from this case, here is an excerpt from the link I posted earlier. I really wish those who are making up their own versions of the story would read the facts. Her initial medical bills and lost wages came to around $20,000.
What were the damages awarded?
After deliberating four hours, the six man, six woman jury initially awarded $200,000 in compensatory damages, which was reduced by the judge by $40,000 due to the finding of comparative fault. The jury also awarded $2.7 million in punitive damages. - See more at: The Stella Liebeck McDonald’s Hot Coffee Case FAQ | Abnormal Use
What efforts were made to settle the matter?
Liebeck initially approached McDonald’s with a demand of $20,000 to cover her medical bills, future medical expenses, and lost income. McDonald’s countered with an offer of $800. (Gerlin, Andrea. “A Matter of Degree,” The Wall Street Journal, September 1, 1994). As trial approached, Liebeck’s settlement demand increased to approximately $300,000. (Id.). After denying McDonald’s motion for summary judgment, the trial judge ordered the parties to attend mediation. During the session, the mediator recommended that McDonald’s accept a $225,000 offer. (Id.). McDonald’s declined. Following the jury verdict and the trial court’s reduction of the punitive damages award, both parties appealed. Before the case was heard on appeal, the parties settled out-of-court for an undisclosed sum. When the settlement was announced, Wagner claimed that “McDonald’s now (is putting) warnings on its coffees as have some of the other fast food chains. That was her principal objective, to make things safe. Have you ever had McDonald’s coffee? It’s hot, hot hot. It’s as hot as the water in your radiator.” (“McDonald’s settles suit over burns from coffee,” The Houston Chronicle, December 2, 1994, available at 1994 WLNR 5009816).
The $20,000 originally requested is itemized in the statement showing how much covered medical bills, loss of wages and pain and disfigurement. Had McDonald's paid this amount, this entire situation could have been avoided. I underlined "comparative fault." This was the portion of the accident the judge believed to be Stella Liebeck's responsibility. So for those who feel she remained blameless in this, the judge did take into consideration her responsibility which was miniscule compared to McDonald's culpability.
When it came to the actual settlement, no one really knows how much Mrs. Liebeck really received other than her family, her attorneys and McDonalds.
As I see it this was a tragic accident. But I remember that her clothing kept the hot coffee on her skin, exacerbating a bad situation.
I can see many instances in fast food alone that if the product was handled in a way that was even intended, there would be consequences. In the off chance that one is served fries right out of the fryer, you will be burned if you stuff them into your mouth immeidately. Should fries be cooled for a minute or two before serving them? I remember getting a loukamades at a Greek festival. It's a donut hole sized pastry, filled with honey, then deep fried. Imagine what boiling honey will do to your mouth. I couldn't taste anything for a week, and having a burnt tongue is not pleasant. Did I sue? No.
What if someone squirted ketchup from a packet into their eyes? Have you ever had ketchup go the wrong way because you hadn't opened the packet far enough? Is that a reason to change the acidic recipe to something more like milk, so it can't hurt anyone in the infinitesimally small chance that someone will get it in their eyes? Ever had the cheese off of a hot slice of pizza fall onto a bare leg? Should pizzas be served cold? Should all bones be removed from food? Someone may choke.
I don't think needs to be presented in such a way so that every possible risk has been minimized. Hot stuff is hot. It's not meant to be poured on the body. I don't see where McDs coffee being hotter than others is really an issue. I've spilled coffee, as have many other people. It's never occurred to me that someone else should have any blame for my pain.
As I see it this was a tragic accident. But I remember that her clothing kept the hot coffee on her skin, exacerbating a bad situation.
I can see many instances in fast food alone that if the product was handled in a way that was even intended, there would be consequences. In the off chance that one is served fries right out of the fryer, you will be burned if you stuff them into your mouth immeidately. Should fries be cooled for a minute or two before serving them? I remember getting a loukamades at a Greek festival. It's a donut hole sized pastry, filled with honey, then deep fried. Imagine what boiling honey will do to your mouth. I couldn't taste anything for a week, and having a burnt tongue is not pleasant. Did I sue? No.
What if someone squirted ketchup from a packet into their eyes? Have you ever had ketchup go the wrong way because you hadn't opened the packet far enough? Is that a reason to change the acidic recipe to something more like milk, so it can't hurt anyone in the infinitesimally small chance that someone will get it in their eyes? Ever had the cheese off of a hot slice of pizza fall onto a bare leg? Should pizzas be served cold? Should all bones be removed from food? Someone may choke.
I don't think needs to be presented in such a way so that every possible risk has been minimized. Hot stuff is hot. It's not meant to be poured on the body. I don't see where McDs coffee being hotter than others is really an issue. I've spilled coffee, as have many other people. It's never occurred to me that someone else should have any blame for my pain.
I love loukoumades! Greek festivals are the best.
Anyway, I don't think every possible risk has to be minimized, but I do think large companies like McDonald's should make a reasonable effort to minimize obvious risks. Like if you're serving a drink that can cause third degree burns, I believe that serving that drink with one of those coffee cup sleeves and letting the public know that the coffee being served is 180ºF is a reasonable thing to do.
Anyway, I don't think every possible risk has to be minimized, but I do think large companies like McDonald's should make a reasonable effort to minimize obvious risks. Like if you're serving a drink that can cause third degree burns, I believe that serving that drink with one of those coffee cup sleeves and letting the public know that the coffee being served is 180ºF is a reasonable thing to do.
Is it reasonable to assume, from a company's point of view, that all hot beverages would be handled carefully, regardless of a label suggesting the temp is higher than what may be considered common? In other words, would you not sip any hot coffee carefully until you knew how hot it was?
Regardless of whether she knew how hot the coffee was, it still would have spilled. Maybe her grandson's driving was at fault. Did anyone look into that?
I can see many instances in fast food alone that if the product was handled in a way that was even intended, there would be consequences. In the off chance that one is served fries right out of the fryer, you will be burned if you stuff them into your mouth immeidately. Should fries be cooled for a minute or two before serving them? I remember getting a loukamades at a Greek festival. It's a donut hole sized pastry, filled with honey, then deep fried. Imagine what boiling honey will do to your mouth. I couldn't taste anything for a week, and having a burnt tongue is not pleasant. Did I sue? No.
I told myself I was going to get out of this thread for the rest of the day. Than I read your reply. I'm sorry, but this shows me that you really don't get it.
What on earth would make you think your situation was remotely comparable to that of Stella Liebeck? You got a slight burn injury that apparently didn't even require you to see the doctor. Ms. Liebeck received third degree burns over the most sensitive area of her body. Ms. Liebeck required substantial medical care that McDonald's refused to pay for. I hope after reflecting you can see how silly it is for you to suggest that you "could have sued". Without medical bills, I can promise you that no lawyer would have wanted your case. Good thing, you chose to leave "well enough alone".
Quote:
What if someone squirted ketchup from a packet into their eyes? Have you ever had ketchup go the wrong way because you hadn't opened the packet far enough? Is that a reason to change the acidic recipe to something more like milk, so it can't hurt anyone in the infinitesimally small chance that someone will get it in their eyes? Ever had the cheese off of a hot slice of pizza fall onto a bare leg? Should pizzas be served cold? Should all bones be removed from food? Someone may choke.
Again, this is all very silly. What you are trying to do is suggest that all conduct has to follow arbitrary rules. I don't assert that and neither did Ms. Liebeck's attorney for that matter. What is asserted is that people have to behave reasonably. Most ten year old children would agree that its not a good idea to serve liquid that is almost boiling hot to people in a moving automobile. Finally, if you disagree on the notion that the standard that is important is the standard of "reasonableness" you apparently don't agree that juries are competent to decide court cases. This is the very standard that juries are asked to apply every day in this country during tort trials.
Is it reasonable to assume, from a company's point of view, that all hot beverages would be handled carefully, regardless of a label suggesting the temp is higher than what may be considered common? In other words, would you not sip any hot coffee carefully until you knew how hot it was?
Regardless of whether she knew how hot the coffee was, it still would have spilled. Maybe her grandson's driving was at fault. Did anyone look into that?
I do believe he was parked at the time of the spill.
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