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I told myself I was going to get out of this thread for the rest of the day. Than I read your reply. I'm sorry, but this shows me that you really don't get it.
What on earth would make you think your situation was remotely comparable to that of Stella Liebeck? You got a slight burn injury that apparently didn't even require you to see the doctor. Ms. Liebeck received third degree burns over the most sensitive area of her body. Ms. Liebeck required substantial medical care that McDonald's refused to pay for. I hope after reflecting you can see how silly it is for you to suggest that you "could have sued". Without medical bills, I can promise you that no lawyer would have wanted your case. Good thing, you chose to leave "well enough alone".
Again, this is all very silly. What you are trying to do is suggest that all conduct has to follow arbitrary rules. I don't assert that and neither did Ms. Liebeck's attorney for that matter. What is asserted is that people have to behave reasonably. Most ten year old children would agree that its not a good idea to serve liquid that is almost boiling hot to people in a moving automobile. Finally, if you disagree on the notion that the standard that is important is the standard of "reasonableness" you apparently don't agree that juries are competent to decide court cases. This is the very standard that juries are asked to apply every day in this country during tort trials.
Why is my loukoumades reference different? No one told me that putting one fresh out of the fryer could result in a burn. There was no warning on the wrapper. Had I been thinking reasonably I would not have popped it into my mouth, but that's my fault. What if I'd dropped it between my legs and squashed it? Would that make my lawsuit better? If anything my situation is more ripe for a lawsuit, because I was consuming the pastry as intended, not applying it to my body in a way that should not be compensated for in it's preparation. If they'd given me a cool one and said "we cool these because people put them into their mouths when they're too hot" I'd say "Give me a hot one, I'll take my chances".
Supposedly this was about the company not warning the customer of danger, and of servng a potentially dangerous product. McDs didn't warn her. The Greek fest didn't warn me. And a ten year old would have known that it's not a good idea to pour hot liquid on one's self for years before they'd consider whose responsibility it is to keep that from happening.
Any of the foods I referred to could be dangerous if applied or consumed in a way that is completely outside of any reasonable expectations, just like hot coffee. Is it reasonable to spill on oneself? No. If the coffee had been less hot, she still would have been burned, because of it being trapped in her clothing (the type of which contributed to the burn's severity, as I recall from reading a long time ago), her skin condition due to advanced age (as referenced in one of the links), etc. At what point (temp?) would McDs not been responsible for this woman's injuries?
No, I do not believe that juries will always return a sensible verdict in any type of case. Little old lady was hurt, big mean profitable corporation can easily afford the bill, so let's stick it to them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emeraldmaiden
I do believe he was parked at the time of the spill.
Water's boiling point is 212F. For McDonald's to completely eliminate the possibility of a customer getting third degree burns from a drink they would have to serve the drink under roughly 120 degrees Fahrenheit (learned about this case in one of my college Anatomy classes lol).
Edit: did a quick search online and found this, just thought it was pretty interesting. Hot Water Causes Third Degree Burns… …in 1 second at 156º
…in 2 seconds at 149º
…in 5 seconds at 140º
…in 15 seconds at 133º
My mistake I'm a scientist I work with Celsius so I assumed the temperatures were in C and not F!
But still, there is no need for the coffee to be at 180F!
McDonald's coffee is gross anyways, it always tastes BURNED to me!
My mistake I'm a scientist I work with Celsius so I assumed the temperatures were in C and not F!
But still, there is no need for the coffee to be at 180F!
McDonald's coffee is gross anyways, it always tastes BURNED to me!
Haha, that's pretty awesome! I got my degree in Economics and took a ton of science classes for my electives, if I haven't found a "career" job within the next year or so, I'll probably try grad school - my heart tells me "MS in genetics!" and my brain tells me "MBA." lol
Anyway, back on topic... yeah, I also personally don't think coffee should be served at 180F. I don't drink coffee, so can people actually even drink the coffee at that temperature? How does it not repeatedly burn the inside of their mouth?
I work at McDonald's as a crew trainer, soon to be promoted to a junior manager. Every McCafe foam coffee cup has a fill line that is indented into the inside of the cup 1/2 centimeters below the rim. We are told to fill the cup to the fill line, but the patronizing senior citizens want that extra 1/2 centimeter of coffee in their discounted 95 cent bill. hence we end up with a lot of burns because the senior citizens want to make the most out of their 95 cents and insist we fill the cup to the top. My poor manager has to deal with people like this daily.
Oh and "fresh fries". Nothing is fresh and EVERYTHING is chemically enhanced at McDonalds. Even the salads. Wanting "fresh food" from McDonald's is like wanting nutritional dairy value from Kraft cheez whiz. If I read the chemical manifest on the side of the boxes of frozen fries in the meat locker, you would gag.
I remember working at McDonalds back when I was 15 and carrying their old school coffee cups filled with coffee. Those things were flimsy as hell with lids that never fit quite right. I was always scared of spilling or dropping it and getting burned. They don't use them anymore, I don't think (it went away with the McCafe).
I've seen "Hot Coffee," and that whole movie shows how screwed up things are when it comes to tort reform. I've also never really gotten why people think that it's so awful that this woman was awarded a lot of money.
Yes, on the surface, the case sounds ridiculous...a woman spilled coffee on herself and sued the coffee maker. If that's all there was to it, you could NEVER get 12 people to agree to give her 2.kaching million dollars in damages. But once you toss in the extent of the injuries (I've spilled hot things on my legs before and never had anything even CLOSE to THAT bad happen), the callousness of the corporation in dealing with them both initially and while in court, the multiple injuries that had happened previously that nothing had been done about, even some health departments telling them to cool down their coffee to no avail...well, then those same 12 people could easily come to the conclusion that over $2 million dollars sounds about right for her injuries.
I used to believe the lawsuit was a frivolous one until I read the facts of the case. I now believe McDonalds was to blame and Ms Liebeck was entitled to compensation for her injuries.
I work at McDonald's as a crew trainer, soon to be promoted to a junior manager. Every McCafe foam coffee cup has a fill line that is indented into the inside of the cup 1/2 centimeters below the rim. We are told to fill the cup to the fill line, but the patronizing senior citizens want that extra 1/2 centimeter of coffee in their discounted 95 cent bill. hence we end up with a lot of burns because the senior citizens want to make the most out of their 95 cents and insist we fill the cup to the top. My poor manager has to deal with people like this daily.
Oh and "fresh fries". Nothing is fresh and EVERYTHING is chemically enhanced at McDonalds. Even the salads. Wanting "fresh food" from McDonald's is like wanting nutritional dairy value from Kraft cheez whiz. If I read the chemical manifest on the side of the boxes of frozen fries in the meat locker, you would gag.
--------" discounted 95 cent bill "
A rip off.
Every McDonalds I have ever stopped at while traveling had a senior discount coffee at 65 cents or less.
What else do you gouge us seniors on in the McDonalds where you work...................sarc
Had McDonalds not sold it to her through a drive up window while she was at the wheel of a car I doubt there would have been a case. If you want to profit from such a situation then you accept some responsibility for the situation. Simple. What's so hard to understand?
Why are you unwilling to demand responsibility of McDonalds? Something social, you feel big shots are entitled to things the rest of us aren't, like the nobility of Medieval times? Are you programmed that way?
What's so hard to understand?
Oh, I don't know.........perhaps the fact that Stella wasn't at the wheel of a car. She wasn't driving.
Every McDonalds I have ever stopped at while traveling had a senior discount coffee at 65 cents or less.
What else do you gouge us seniors on in the McDonalds where you work...................sarc
The chemically enhanced sugar sludge you know as "Cola". I'm just sick of seniors patronizing us McDonald's employees as if we're below the rest of society. They expect to be serviced first in a long line of customers, they want "fresh fries" (they are all the same temperature damnit and we throw away all fries after 15 minutes of being on the warmer) that are 90% chemicals and 10% potatoes, they expect 10 refills on a small senior coffee and don't understand our restaurant's policy (and sign that says) 2 refills only....In fact some old person dug up a coffee cup from a trash can and tried to get a refill right infront of a surveillance camera.....
I work at McDonald's as a crew trainer, soon to be promoted to a junior manager. Every McCafe foam coffee cup has a fill line that is indented into the inside of the cup 1/2 centimeters below the rim. We are told to fill the cup to the fill line, but the patronizing senior citizens want that extra 1/2 centimeter of coffee in their discounted 95 cent bill. hence we end up with a lot of burns because the senior citizens want to make the most out of their 95 cents and insist we fill the cup to the top. My poor manager has to deal with people like this daily.
Oh and "fresh fries". Nothing is fresh and EVERYTHING is chemically enhanced at McDonalds. Even the salads. Wanting "fresh food" from McDonald's is like wanting nutritional dairy value from Kraft cheez whiz. If I read the chemical manifest on the side of the boxes of frozen fries in the meat locker, you would gag.
There were no fill-lines back in the day when this happened. And there were no safety measures like the collars or heavier materials either. I don't drink coffee but I used to ask for two cups to put one inside the other to act as insulation back then when I ordered tea so I could hang onto my drink because one cup was too hot to hold.
If the people you claim to be burning themselves on their hot beverages are really doing so, it is at their own risk if they are warned with the fill lines and the cups are adequately covered with collars. This is very different from the cups used in Mrs. Liebeck's situation where McDonald's knew the cups they were using were potentially hazardous and were negligent in warning the public. The fact that they didn't try to alleviate the problem at the time they knew there was a problem because people were getting burned before Mrs. Liebeck's injury came out the trial.
And, really, the fries? No one would gag at their contents. No one eating fries at McDonalds is going to expect them to be health food. The "fresh food" gimmick is McDonald's promotional idea. It's doubtful anyone believes it.
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