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Old 10-26-2013, 10:32 AM
 
Location: texas
9,127 posts, read 7,429,815 times
Reputation: 2382

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There are threads running on the "poor", "able bodied" welfare recipients, and the unemployed in general.

We can all agree that funding the able-bodied is not the uptimal choice. Those that can work should.
If we look at what is needed, we would all agree it's jobs. Good paying jobs. Secure jobs. Jobs not easily sent overseas.

If we look at the need of our nation, not many would disagree that we need maintenance. America's roads, bridges, underpasses, canals and other infrastructure is in disrepair.

If there was a way to fix our infrastructure and employ the unemployed, what would be the best way to accomplish real and cost effective repair jobs?

We should all agree that the last round if stimulus spending did not have the effect we beleived it should have had. In my opinion, too many projects were not to fix delapidate bridges and roads, it was to fund pet "new" projects that really had little impact in servicing the problems with existing infrastructure or theunemployed.

So My recomendations would be:
  • Any monies allocated to the states must be used for repairs to only existing infrastructure.
No new street car projects or high speed trains...or the like. Infrastructure already identified by state or Army corp as needing of imedieate repairs.
  • Projects will be bid by compaies with proven track records of completion and few delays.
These projects should be run by the most capable...not the lowest bider. A cost limit should be agreed upon before the job and no "cost plus" contracts entered into.
  • Companies chosen must agree to train, employ, and maintain a percentage of workers refered by state work commissions. (In Texas, persons recieving UI or SNAP benefits, must register with the Texas Workforce commission; and must be willing and availible for work).
  • Citizen oversight. We must have some mechanism for citizens to have oversite to the process. More importantly, these individuals must not be appointed by the governing body. There may need to be a new way developed to have citizen imput and oversite in the process. Maybe in all governmental processes.
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:22 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, La. USA
6,264 posts, read 3,321,679 times
Reputation: 2478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimuelojones View Post
There are threads running on the "poor", "able bodied" welfare recipients, and the unemployed in general.

We can all agree that funding the able-bodied is not the uptimal choice. Those that can work should.
If we look at what is needed, we would all agree it's jobs. Good paying jobs. Secure jobs. Jobs not easily sent overseas.

If we look at the need of our nation, not many would disagree that we need maintenance. America's roads, bridges, underpasses, canals and other infrastructure is in disrepair.

If there was a way to fix our infrastructure and employ the unemployed, what would be the best way to accomplish real and cost effective repair jobs?

We should all agree that the last round if stimulus spending did not have the effect we beleived it should have had. In my opinion, too many projects were not to fix delapidate bridges and roads, it was to fund pet "new" projects that really had little impact in servicing the problems with existing infrastructure or theunemployed.

So My recomendations would be:
  • Any monies allocated to the states must be used for repairs to only existing infrastructure.
No new street car projects or high speed trains...or the like. Infrastructure already identified by state or Army corp as needing of imedieate repairs.
  • Projects will be bid by compaies with proven track records of completion and few delays.
These projects should be run by the most capable...not the lowest bider. A cost limit should be agreed upon before the job and no "cost plus" contracts entered into.
  • Companies chosen must agree to train, employ, and maintain a percentage of workers refered by state work commissions. (In Texas, persons recieving UI or SNAP benefits, must register with the Texas Workforce commission; and must be willing and availible for work).
  • Citizen oversight. We must have some mechanism for citizens to have oversite to the process. More importantly, these individuals must not be appointed by the governing body. There may need to be a new way developed to have citizen imput and oversite in the process. Maybe in all governmental processes.
From being around republicans talking about forcing people on welfare to work, I have thought about this subject a lot, and I would love to see some form of workfare in America.

But many of the people on welfare live a culture of living off welfare, and they would be unable to work 40 hours a week (at least not at first.) I believe that these people would have to start working at around 20 hours a week, and them give them a financial incentive to work more hours.

And before anyone calls me a socialist or a communist realize this, most of the following ideas were put into my head by conversations I had with conservatives.


Many people on welfare don't have cars, access to daycare services, air conditioning, internet service, ex.ex. (and these people would love to live the lifestyle of the American dream.)

I would like to see the US government buy old apartment buildings and fix them up, and then turn them into housing for workfare workers. Then give the workfare workers an apartment, basic cable, internet access, and a few cars for them to share so each one has access to a car occasionally.

Some of the workfare workers could work in a daycare service in the housing building (so workfare workers with kids could go to work.)

Some of them could maintain the workers housing building.

And some could have the job of driving vans to bring workfare workers to and from work (this way they wouldn't have to walk to bus stops and wait for buses.)


Some of these workfare workers could get jobs in the private sector, and others could do government jobs like those you spoke of above.

I would never want to force everyone on welfare to do this, but I believe many people on welfare would volunteer to join a program like this.

And not only would this work force be able to do many valuable things for America, it would also break the expect welfare and not work state of mind in America. And these people would get accustomed to working, and if and when a good job in the private sector became available, the workfare workers could leave the program and become regular working Americans.

I grew up around a lot of very poor people, and its not as easy for them to get jobs as many people may believe.

I would love to hear other forum members ideas on a system to give people on welfare workfare jobs.

Last edited by chad3; 10-26-2013 at 01:47 PM..
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Old 10-26-2013, 02:29 PM
 
1,807 posts, read 1,622,092 times
Reputation: 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimuelojones View Post
So My recomendations would be:
  • Any monies allocated to the states must be used for repairs to only existing infrastructure.
No new street car projects or high speed trains...or the like. Infrastructure already identified by state or Army corp as needing of imedieate repairs.
  • Projects will be bid by compaies with proven track records of completion and few delays.
These projects should be run by the most capable...not the lowest bider. A cost limit should be agreed upon before the job and no "cost plus" contracts entered into.
  • Companies chosen must agree to train, employ, and maintain a percentage of workers refered by state work commissions. (In Texas, persons recieving UI or SNAP benefits, must register with the Texas Workforce commission; and must be willing and availible for work).
  • Citizen oversight. We must have some mechanism for citizens to have oversite to the process. More importantly, these individuals must not be appointed by the governing body. There may need to be a new way developed to have citizen imput and oversite in the process. Maybe in all governmental processes.


Idea 1. Cities and states grow and infrastructure needs change. Diverting money federal money away from a city/state's top priorities into lower priorities is, by definition, a waste of money. There are already many high speed trains in the country that make business life a lot easier. You obviously don't seem to know about this, but then again, I'm guessing you're not in the workforce yet.

Idea 2. This is not an issue. You don't have some homeless guy bidding to build bridges. You don't understand how any of this works, so you shouldn't be making any suggestions in this regard. Go read some books.

Idea 3. A company, instead of using seasoned, experienced, qualified workers that it knows and has trained, it should employ less productive people from a list given to it by the state? That's the dumbest idea of the 4. That's like asking your plumber to wire your house. That's not to mention that there are already qualified people who can't find jobs as it is, so there would be no real net benefit.

Idea 4. There's ALREADY citizen oversight into this. That you don't know about it just makes you look ignorant. Go hit the library and learn how all of this stuff works.

Less posting, more reading.

Last edited by CaseyB; 10-26-2013 at 07:24 PM.. Reason: rude
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Old 10-26-2013, 02:32 PM
 
5,768 posts, read 10,988,262 times
Reputation: 3852
The fundamental problem is that we don't have a big surplus of unfilled labor for people to do. Creating the need for more labor through public works projects would help some workers in some areas in some circumstances, but with the increase in mechanization and other such systems, we simply don't need armies of men with hand-tools to build infrastructure anymore.
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Old 10-26-2013, 02:39 PM
 
11,086 posts, read 7,851,912 times
Reputation: 6389
Here's what I'm seeing the last few years: LOTS of small business people, around forever, are retiring. I think it's a combination of the age of the owners, which is late 50's to 65, plus the whole health insurance rules became too expensive and were just too much trouble.

And I'm not seeing any of their children continuing on in the family business.

That statistic about the percentage of people not in the workforce is going up because of the above, in my opinion. When boomers retire, they put a lot of people out of work.

It's an unanticipated multiplier effect, and a highly negative one.
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Old 10-26-2013, 02:42 PM
 
12,872 posts, read 17,165,672 times
Reputation: 8957
Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
The fundamental problem is that we don't have a big surplus of unfilled labor for people to do. Creating the need for more labor through public works projects would help some workers in some areas in some circumstances, but with the increase in mechanization and other such systems, we simply don't need armies of men with hand-tools to build infrastructure anymore.
That can be addressed by requiring the work be done by hand with shovels. I understand that some Great Depression era projects were purposely performed without heavy machinery. Though it didn't end the unemployment problem.
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Old 10-26-2013, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Barrington
60,630 posts, read 41,587,250 times
Reputation: 19559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goinback2011 View Post
Here's what I'm seeing the last few years: LOTS of small business people, around forever, are retiring. I think it's a combination of the age of the owners, which is late 50's to 65, plus the whole health insurance rules became too expensive and were just too much trouble.

And I'm not seeing any of their children continuing on in the family business.

That statistic about the percentage of people not in the workforce is going up because of the above, in my opinion. When boomers retire, they put a lot of people out of work.

It's an unanticipated multiplier effect, and a highly negative one.
Something like 96-98% ( depends on source) of small businesses are exempt from ACA.

50% of small businesses do not make it to their 5 year anniversary and it has nothing to do with government.

Small business is the majority employer of illegal workers. That the federal government has never seriously and consistently cracked down on employers of illegal workers has been and remains a big fat hand out to small business.

Many small business models have not been able to compete with the big box retailers and internet. Most consumers will not pay a premium or go out of their way to patronize a small business unless it fill a unique need within the community.
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Old 10-26-2013, 02:58 PM
 
11,086 posts, read 7,851,912 times
Reputation: 6389
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Something like 96-98% ( depends on source) of small businesses are exempt from ACA.

50% of small businesses do not make it to their 5 year anniversary and it has nothing to do with government.

Small business is the majority employer of illegal workers. That the federal government has never seriously and consistently cracked down on employers of illegal workers has been and remains a big fat hand out to small business.

Many small business models have not been able to compete with the big box retailers and internet. Most consumers will not pay a premium or go out of their way to patronize a small business unless it fill a unique need within the community.
You're like some super bot.

None of these businesses are run by or employ illegals. There are very few Hispanics here. Look it up.

If you could actually listen, you might learn something: tell your handlers they need to understand the indirect effects that are being created by boomer retirements.
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Old 10-26-2013, 04:25 PM
 
5,768 posts, read 10,988,262 times
Reputation: 3852
Quote:
That can be addressed by requiring the work be done by hand with shovels.
Well, that would cause a lot of problems. When projects are engineered, the engineers assume that the builders will have access to modern machinery. Modifying plans to have people with hand-tools scrambling around the site creates major safety problems. The government would also be on the hook for all the resulting work-related injuries. And the project itself would become massively more expensive.

It would end up being much cheaper for taxpayers to simply shell out for welfare than use such a convoluted workaround to try and hide the fact that the labor was just welfare in another guise.
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Old 10-26-2013, 04:32 PM
 
47,528 posts, read 65,415,255 times
Reputation: 22380
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
That can be addressed by requiring the work be done by hand with shovels. I understand that some Great Depression era projects were purposely performed without heavy machinery. Though it didn't end the unemployment problem.
And they actually did some good projects during the Great Depression. There is much work that can be done that requires few skills -- highway clean-up, planting of trees, graffitti removal, painting of old buildings, some of our cities are looking very shabby, especially where most people are on welfare.

Work is good for people. It's energizing. It gets them out of their houses and around other people.
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