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So just because you got another job everyone can? Not seeing that logic. You are right no one signs a lifetime contract to McDonalds but that does not excuse McDonalds from paying poor wages.
What do burger flippers do when they don't want to become managers? It took me four weeks to decide that I had no desire to ever manage other burger flippers.
That is fine, but it doesn't change the Fair Market Value of a job flipping burgers.
Welcome to the future. Robots taking over minimum wage jobs, and government having to take a larger role in caring for masses of people who can not find a job that pays enough to make ends meet.
Only so many engineers needed.
You are right and when most or all of those jobs do not exist the Right Wing Wackos will still be telling people who have no jobs to stop being lazy and get education or more skills they are so delusional.
and just what should business be held accountable for? are you suggesting that business should just hire a bunch of people they dont need? and then pay them say $15 an hour, to do what? i have said it before, business is not created to put people to work. a business is created to make the owner of the business money. they do that by creating a product or service, and charging enough money to cover expenses and make a profit, but not charge too much that they lose business.
if a business needs to hire someone to take up work that needs to be done, but the owner isnt able to get to, then they hire someone, usually because the business has expanded to require an employee. there is no shifting of blame to the employee, because the business is blameless when an employee hires on and accepts the wages the business will pay for a particular job. if the employee doesnt like the wages offered, they dont have to accept the job offer. again if the employee cant do the math to figure out what they are going to get each week, how is that the employers problem?
and how is it the employers problem if the going rate for a particular job is lets say $8 an hour, but the employee needs $12 to make ends meet? you want to blame the employer for the ills of society, but the employer isnt the problem.
Wow I just posted something and you go on a rant. I never said business should hire people they do not need or even pay them $15. You are right business are there to make a profit but they also provides jobs and if they do not provide well paying jobs and make the rest of society pay for it they are leeching off of society. The employee needs a job so no matter what the pay they either take the job or go homeless so yes many times they do have to take the job. The employer is the problem because if they do not pay well enough for their employees to live on like I said earlier other people have to pay for it. Why do you even have that job if you it is not even worth paying someone a slave wage?
You are right and when most or all of those jobs do not exist the Right Wing Wackos will still be telling people who have no jobs to stop being lazy and get education or more skills they are so delusional.
This is way more complicated...the RWW have objected to the massive student loan debt so I think they're not going to suggest that more education is the solution. I think ultimately the RWW won't have ANY answers for redundant workers no longer needed.
You are right and when most or all of those jobs do not exist the Right Wing Wackos will still be telling people who have no jobs to stop being lazy and get education or more skills they are so delusional.
What do Liberals suggest they do....get government hand outs.
You talking about other people being "me for me" is the pot calling the kettle black. You are the king of supporting everyone for themselves. It is not greedy you want to keep it is greedy to have tons more then people you employ and have to have other people have to support them because you are to selfish to pay them more. I am not sure how you can say people wanting enough to live on is greedy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt1984
So just because you got another job everyone can? Not seeing that logic. You are right no one signs a lifetime contract to McDonalds but that does not excuse McDonalds from paying poor wages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt1984
You are right and when most or all of those jobs do not exist the Right Wing Wackos will still be telling people who have no jobs to stop being lazy and get education or more skills they are so delusional.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt1984
Wow I just posted something and you go on a rant. I never said business should hire people they do not need or even pay them $15. You are right business are there to make a profit but they also provides jobs and if they do not provide well paying jobs and make the rest of society pay for it they are leeching off of society. The employee needs a job so no matter what the pay they either take the job or go homeless so yes many times they do have to take the job. The employer is the problem because if they do not pay well enough for their employees to live on like I said earlier other people have to pay for it. Why do you even have that job if you it is not even worth paying someone a slave wage?
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt
This is way more complicated...the RWW have objected to the massive student loan debt so I think they're not going to suggest that more education is the solution. I think ultimately the RWW won't have ANY answers for redundant workers no longer needed.
you guys are really off kilter arent you? you suggest that business owners should be paying their employees more, and then turn around and recognize that business is there to make money, but that they need employees to do it, which is wrong in fact depending on the size of the business.
and then to go off and say conservatives wont suggest more education because of the government involvement in student loan programs which in fact increase the costs of going to college which means more loan debt, which means higher college costs, etc.
get a clue guys, a business doesnt always need employees, unless sales get to the point where it makes sense to hire employees. and when that happens, the business owner is going to know what the market place pays for the jobs he is going to hire people for, so if the market place is paying $8 per hour, the owner might be wise to offer $8.15 per hour, to attract employees to his business, but he is not going to lay much more than market based wages, it would be stupid to do so. and once an employee accepts a particular wage, then the employer has the responsibility to pay that wage to the employee. now if you want to pay people more than market wages, then do this, start your own business, in what ever field you want, and pay your employees as you see fit. remember that wages are but one expense for the business, and you have to price you products or services to make money. you have to know your break even point, and you have to know if you can regularly meet or beat that break even point, before you open the doors for business.
as for getting more education, student loan are only one way to get a higher education, there are grants available from a variety of sources, if you are willing to work for the foundation or company that offers the grants, you too can get a higher education. for instance lets say you want to be a doctor, but if you depended solely on student loans you would be in debt for about $150,000 on average when you hit residency. however if you accept a grant from say the peace corps, they would pay for your education, but you would then have to work for the peace corps for a specified minimum number of years to then earn that grant money. if you dont then it becomes a loan, and you have to pay it off. and there are many such grant available in many different fields.
one more thing, you keep talking about mcdonalds like it is one entity, and it isnt. the vast majority of mcdonalds restaurants are individually owned and operated, they pay a franchise fee to the main company, for the name, the advertising, and the product. if you were to work at mcdonalds, you would find that you dont get paid by mcdonalds, you get paid by xyz corp DBA mcdonalds. and xyz corp is a small company. so before you ***** about mcdonalds, at least find out something about the company first.
Wow I just posted something and you go on a rant. I never said business should hire people they do not need or even pay them $15. You are right business are there to make a profit but they also provides jobs and if they do not provide well paying jobs and make the rest of society pay for it they are leeching off of society. The employee needs a job so no matter what the pay they either take the job or go homeless so yes many times they do have to take the job. The employer is the problem because if they do not pay well enough for their employees to live on like I said earlier other people have to pay for it. Why do you even have that job if you it is not even worth paying someone a slave wage?
All the Employer is required to do is pay minimum wage. If a job does not pay what an Employee needs, this Employee needs to move up at his current Employer of look for other Employment. It is insane to blame the Employer and to put no blame on the Employee.
All the Employer is required to do is pay minimum wage. If a job does not pay what an Employee needs, this Employee needs to move up at his current Employer of look for other Employment. It is insane to blame the Employer and to put no blame on the Employee.
What you describe above is why the richer or getting richer and the poor and getting more poor. Many employers now a days are selfish greedy scum who will find anyway to pay their employees as less as possible like telling the employee to just find another job. They could care less about their employees and only see them as a means to make money. IF they had their way they would pay as little as possible because they know they do not have to worry about what happens when their employee does not have enough to live on.Businesses owners know society will take care of them so why pay more? We have examples of what happens when business can control who they employ in Third World Countries and it is not pretty but that is where we seem to be heading.
you guys are really off kilter arent you? you suggest that business owners should be paying their employees more, and then turn around and recognize that business is there to make money, but that they need employees to do it, which is wrong in fact depending on the size of the business.
and then to go off and say conservatives wont suggest more education because of the government involvement in student loan programs which in fact increase the costs of going to college which means more loan debt, which means higher college costs, etc.
get a clue guys, a business doesnt always need employees, unless sales get to the point where it makes sense to hire employees. and when that happens, the business owner is going to know what the market place pays for the jobs he is going to hire people for, so if the market place is paying $8 per hour, the owner might be wise to offer $8.15 per hour, to attract employees to his business, but he is not going to lay much more than market based wages, it would be stupid to do so. and once an employee accepts a particular wage, then the employer has the responsibility to pay that wage to the employee. now if you want to pay people more than market wages, then do this, start your own business, in what ever field you want, and pay your employees as you see fit. remember that wages are but one expense for the business, and you have to price you products or services to make money. you have to know your break even point, and you have to know if you can regularly meet or beat that break even point, before you open the doors for business.
What is market price? No employer I know bases what they pay on market value. Are you stating businesses can not afford to pay more then $8? Then how come companies like IN and OUT Burger and Costco start way above that? The reason is they know that if they pay their employees well they will get good workers and that the money the workers get will go back in the economy. It is simple economics.
as for getting more education, student loan are only one way to get a higher education, there are grants available from a variety of sources, if you are willing to work for the foundation or company that offers the grants, you too can get a higher education. for instance lets say you want to be a doctor, but if you depended solely on student loans you would be in debt for about $150,000 on average when you hit residency. however if you accept a grant from say the peace corps, they would pay for your education, but you would then have to work for the peace corps for a specified minimum number of years to then earn that grant money. if you dont then it becomes a loan, and you have to pay it off. and there are many such grant available in many different fields.
Student loans are good if you know for sure you have a good paying job available out of school there is not guarantee of that. Some people are not smart enough to go to college and there are not enough jobs for college graduates if everyone went to college or trade school.
one more thing, you keep talking about mcdonalds like it is one entity, and it isnt. the vast majority of mcdonalds restaurants are individually owned and operated, they pay a franchise fee to the main company, for the name, the advertising, and the product. if you were to work at mcdonalds, you would find that you dont get paid by mcdonalds, you get paid by xyz corp DBA mcdonalds. and xyz corp is a small company. so before you ***** about mcdonalds, at least find out something about the company first.
So you are saying because it is a franchise they are can not make a lot of money and should be exempt from paying a good wage? I am not sure if the McDonalds I live near are franchises or not but they are always busy.
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