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Sad.. that you would have to be "forced" to have compassion for your fellow citizens....
What makes you think I have to be forced?
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But no,
"No" what?
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as I stated either in this thread or another, that as a society we have the right to govern standards that help us and our nation be the best that it can be... create laws that protect all of its citizens.. NOT just the ones with the deepest pockets.. and that makes no distinction about life or death based on the size of their wallets.
Nicely blurred and obfuscated. Does it mean you believe people whould be forced to give up the plans they preferred, and forced to pay into the plans you think are better? Or does it mean you don't think so?
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And, as I stated earlier, you act as if all conservatives make money and have jobs, but Liberals do not.
Don't know where you're getting your wishful thinking about how "I act". Are you deliberately trying to look foolish and be wrong with these fatuous accusations?
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(More of proud2b's insults, fibs, and character assassination deleted)
So, do you believe people should be forced to give up the insurance plans they prefer, and be forced to pay into plans you think are better?
If so, why do you think YOUR judgement on which insurance I should buy, is any better than my own? Or my neighbor's for his family? Or the guy on the next block over? Especially considering that you know nothing about me or my family, or any of those others?
And lastly, what on Earth gives you the right to FORCE me to do all these things you intend for me?
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
3,997 posts, read 4,141,865 times
Reputation: 2677
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Originally Posted by swagger
The whole "health care is a right" nonsense is just that - nonsense. I want everyone to be happy and healthy, just like you do, but I'm also pragmatic about things, and pragmatism is something that I've noticed is lacking completely in the pie-in-the-sky dreamer/liberal types. You have to work within the framework of reality. If folks like you, who are very well intentioned - and that's laudable - would start thinking in terms of what's possible and practical, instead of trying to force some utopian vision on everyone, we'd all get along a lot better and positive things would actually get accomplished.
Can't rep you again... but it brings me to a thought...
I'm granted 2nd amendment rights.. correct? So I have a right to own a gun. But if I can't afford the gun.. should there be a tax paid in by every citizen that requires us all to own guns? What if I don't buy that gun... Can I be taxed for failure to buy it? I mean after all... it's a "right."
So... why doesn't the same standard apply to able-bodied welfare recipients? Why aren't they required to be self-sustaining in order to be allowed to continue to exist? Why is it your position that they are allowed external means of support but unborn children aren't?
The USA is being dragged into the 21st century and the old farts are whining.
This too shall pass.
Wether you like it or not, it's the law of the land and that's the way it is.
So, the USA is finally going to be offering health care to it's hard working
citizens so you don't die from a disease and you continue to work and pay taxes.
I hope someday we will have Medicare for all, like the rest of the industrialized
countries in this world, but we change very slowly.
This country is cruel.
Dog eat dog.
It takes a long time for the American people to see that we have to take
care of each other.
Americans are greedy and selfish.
That's alright, the old will die off, and the young will change things.
I think the ACA is a mess, but I understand the hope behind it.
Thing is, many of the people totally against national health care don't realize, or refuse to acknowledge, that we are all already paying for one another's health care.
When the poor who have no health care don't get regular checkups or preventive medicine, they wait until they have to go to an emergency room. When they can't pay those bills, the costs are passed on to everyone else via higher premiums, higher costs in general, etc.
We live in a society. We don't all regularly need police or fire department services, but we all pay for it. We don't all have children in schools, but we all pay for it. We don't all support a lot of our nation's involvement on this or that global enterprise, but we all pay for it.
You bring the word 'forced' into it with your question.. then ask me this.. okay.. whatever..
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Nicely blurred and obfuscated. Does it mean you believe people whould be forced to give up the plans they preferred, and forced to pay into the plans you think are better? Or does it mean you don't think so?
yes, the plans don't meet minimum standards set out in the ACA.. they don't cover what is required to be covered.. and therefore does not offer the consumer the protection they think it does and they think their money is going . There is the exception of the plans mentioned here or in another thread that unfortunately fall victim, but those are few compared to the ones that are actually crap that don't offer the real protectoin that is needed and paid for.
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Don't know where you're getting your wishful thinking about how "I act". Are you deliberately trying to look foolish and be wrong with these fatuous accusations?
Your statements.. yours and others with the mentality that you are paying for something liberals want and liberals aren't paying for. You are not the only one guilty of this.. and indeed, as I said before, I'm not asking anything of anyone I don't' expect of myself. But I suppose you won't answer to that, just try to deflect and act all indignant.
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If so, why do you think YOUR judgement on which insurance I should buy, is any better than my own? Or my neighbor's for his family? Or the guy on the next block over? Especially considering that you know nothing about me or my family, or any of those others?
I believe the law sets out standards for insurance.. and indeed it's better than what you bought. There are many people with stories bout how they had insurance but found out the insurance they had was crap. The ACA set out to fix just that problem.
And lastly, what on Earth gives you the right to FORCE me to do all these things you intend for me?[/quote]
I already answered that.. and ironically it led to this post.. LOL. so obviously you didn't care to hear why I think what I think..instead you'd rather talk in circles.. probably because you don't have anything to contribute in response to my actual answer.....
We live in a society. We don't all regularly need police or fire department services, but we all pay for it. We don't all have children in schools, but we all pay for it.
That could not be further from the truth. Actually, only 40% of us pay for it. The Chairman of the Economics Department of Harvard University explains...
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"Because transfer payments are, in effect, the opposite of taxes, it makes sense to look not just at taxes paid, but at taxes paid minus transfers received. For 2009, the most recent year available, here are taxes less transfers as a percentage of market income (income that households earned from their work and savings):
Bottom quintile: -301 percent Second quintile: -42 percent Middle quintile: -5 percent
Fourth quintile: 10 percent
Highest quintile: 22 percent
Top one percent: 28 percent
The negative 301 percent means that a typical family in the bottom quintile receives about $3 in transfer payments for every dollar earned.
The most surprising fact to me was that the effective tax rate is negative for the middle quintile. According to the CBO data, this number was +14 percent in 1979 (when the data begin) and remained positive through 2007. It was negative 0.5 percent in 2008, and negative 5 percent in 2009. That is, the middle class, having long been a net contributor to the funding of government, is now a net recipient of government largess."
And before anyone whines that that analysis applies only to federal taxes and transfers, here's the info on benefits and services received per dollar of tax paid for ALL taxes, local, state, and federal:
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I mean after all... it's a "right."
