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I have not read a SINGLE post were someone said the poor should not have health care. Find one and post it here...however I have read MANY posts that call out ObummerCare as a failed law.
Did any of you stop and think that we are not against health care for all. We just realize and understand that the morons plan doesn't and will not work? What I find most amusing is you voted against the very man who successfully gave health care to all the folks in Massachusetts yet put the village idiot back in the whitehouse.
If you folks would stop pretending the world is out to get you and start thinking about what you can contribute verses take things would be different.
10's of millions lost their health care plans that worked. New plans are unaffordable.. What part of doesn't work don't you understand? You were lied to and taken as fools yet you still support his failed policies as if you have Stockholm Syndrome. It's concerning very concerning.
Your victim mentality is getting very very old.. The rich this the rich that they are taking food stamps away your racist if Bush had its Bushes fault you want to get rid of Social Security it's a never ending blather of you loosing something verses coming up with a solution that doesn't involve taking something from someone else to satisfy your wants.
So, are the doctors of Germany, a country that feels you have an inherent right, by virtue of being in that country, to health care, slaves of the German people?
Because if they are, they're in serious violation of several international treaties banning slavery that they're a party to.
Yes. Anytime you require someone to provide you a service because it is your "right." Then you have just reduced that individual providing your service into your own personal slave. Slavery is quite common among socialists actually. Liberal freaks just label a service as a "right" and BINGO! instant slavery.
Yes. Anytime you require someone to provide you a service because it is your "right." Then you have just reduced that individual providing your service into your own personal slave. Slavery is quite common among socialists actually. Liberal freaks just label a service as a "right" and BINGO! instant slavery.
Really, because I thought a slave was someone who didn't choose to become a slave but instead was either forced into it or born into it. Doctors usually choose to become doctors of their own free will. Is the fire department my personal slaves if they come to my house to put out a fire? Are the cops my slaves if they come to my house because it's been burglarized? The Germans don't seem to consider their doctors as their own personal slaves and I think doctors in Germany might be surprised that you consider them, who went to into medicine of their own free will, as slaves.
Really, because I thought a slave was someone who didn't choose to become a slave but instead was either forced into it or born into it. Doctors usually choose to become doctors of their own free will. Is the fire department my personal slaves if they come to my house to put out a fire? Are the cops my slaves if they come to my house because it's been burglarized? The Germans don't seem to consider their doctors as their own personal slaves and I think doctors in Germany might be surprised that you consider them, who went to into medicine of their own free will, as slaves.
A slave is anyone who is forced to provide a service, whether they want to or not. Slaves have no choice, they must obey and provide to you what you consider to be your right. In this case, it is health care, but it also applies to education, or any other service you wish to force upon others.
You do not have to be born into slavery. Slavery can be forced upon you, just like the liberal freaks are doing today with health care, and just like they did with education decades ago. No matter how you try to twist it, if it involves providing a service to someone then it cannot be construed as a "right." Unless, like I said, you support slavery.
A slave is anyone who is forced to provide a service, whether they want to or not. Slaves have no choice, they must obey and provide to you what you consider to be your right. In this case, it is health care, but it also applies to education, or any other service you wish to force upon others.
You do not have to be born into slavery. Slavery can be forced upon you, just like the liberal freaks are doing today with health care, and just like they did with education decades ago. No matter how you try to twist it, if it involves providing a service to someone then it cannot be construed as a "right." Unless, like I said, you support slavery.
Do you support slavery?
I support people doing the jobs we pay them to do, whether they be doctors, cops or firefighters. I don't consider that slavery, but on the other hand, I think I understand the concept of slavery better than you do.
I feel that the biggest difference, what it all boils down to is this:
Those of us for the ACA (and particularly those that would have liked a one payer system) see access to health care as a right NOT a privilege.
Those opposed see it as a privilege and not a right.
I see it as a right because, ultimately access to it is a matter of life and death, making it a necessity. Being treated for ailments makes a difference in suffering for not suffering on levels that would be considered inhumane.
It is the ONLY life necessity that carries a price tag most luxury items do. In most cases, procedures, surgeries are priced higher than homes.
Indeed, if you don't have a car or a boat or a plane or the latest TV or gadget , you won't die. Therefore those items don't qualify as a right.. you have to earn the privilege of owning those items.
However, just because you aren't earning a high 6 figure or above salary shouldn't mean that you then suffer and die due to lack of access to healthcare.
I know I care that everyone, regardless of how much money they earn, has access. I don't feel that I'm more deserving of that than any other person, whether they make less or more than me.
And, I feel that access shouldn't mean that people loose everything they have worked for.
I think if we could all agree that healthcare is a right and not a privilege there would still be some disagreement about the ACA, but I think we would be closer together on it than we are. Heck , our healthcare system may not have gotten so bad in the first place.
Let us consider a few things before we laud the virtues of the ACA. First, you are correct that we have one side of the isle making the claim that [affordable] healthcare is a right, while the other contends it is a privilege. If healthcare is a right as some think, then what other necessities should be considered "rights" that are not. Shelter. Could we conclude that adequate shelter is more essential to sustaining life than healthcare? And with shelter in this day and age comes the utilities common to homes/apartments. What about food? Food and water are paramount and far more essential than shelter or healthcare. What about all the homeless and hungry in America. Why don't we get on our pulpits and declare X, Y, and Z rights too? We should make it the responsibility of the Federal government to supply these as well? Of course they would need to set up new agencies, departments, et cetera to provide these rights; not to mention all the new taxes that would need to be collected to pay for it. After all, who can manage your money better than the Federal government? Where does this bullcrap end?
Rights don't require egregious taxation to provide. Rights are not forced down the throats of people who don't want them to begin with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead
I think those against the ACA are primarily politically motivated. It could be a win for Obama, so it must be painted as the end of the world. They probably deep down care about their fellow citizens, they just don't care for their fellow citizens as much as they hate liberals. A strange place to be.
Would you count the 1.5 million who have already lost the coverage they wanted and were paying for among the "politically motivated". You probably also think that the reason people don't like Obama is because he is black, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm
while there are things in obamacare that i do like, such as the preexisting conditions clause, among others, my problem with the law is all the new regulations that are coming down like a saturn v rocket that flamed out at 5000ft. and it will hit with the power of a nagasaki bomb against the economy. people are going to be very upset when they end up having to pony up $10 grand before the insurance kicks in, and also when their copays jump up. and then there are the new taxes in the bill, as well as the fact that the IRS is going to be enforcing the penalties. this law could have been done so much better than it was had our lawmakers on both sides of the isle just sat down and actually negotiated a proper bill, rather than foist the monstrosity they did on us.
We didn't need the damn thing to begin with. Medicare and Medicaid were doing what they were designed to. ACA is all about control, nothing more. If things keep going the way they are it's going to be open season on politicians before long.
I support people doing the jobs we pay them to do, whether they be doctors, cops or firefighters. I don't consider that slavery, but on the other hand, I think I understand the concept of slavery better than you do.
Then you cannot support MediCare/MedicAid or the Affordable Health Care Act of 2010. Neither program pays the doctors or the hospitals "just compensation" for their goods and services. Since you claim to support paying people to do their job, you must oppose all federal health care programs.
Or you lying, and you really do not support paying people "just compensation" for what you consider to be your "right."
Then you cannot support MediCare/MedicAid or the Affordable Health Care Act of 2010. Neither program pays the doctors or the hospitals "just compensation" for their goods and services. Since you claim to support paying people to do their job, you must oppose all federal health care programs.
Or you lying, and you really do not support paying people "just compensation" for what you consider to be your "right."
Who decides what just compensation is? You? lol
Here's the definition of a slave, since you clearly need it:
Someone who is legally owned by another person and is forced to work for that person without pay.
Here's the thing about slaves. They're slaves, because 1) they don't get paid; 2) they didn't decide to become slaves; and 3) that can't quit being slaves if they think the compensation isn't "just" enough.
If doctors don't like it, they don't have to be doctors anymore. They can choose another line of work BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT SLAVES
I have not read a SINGLE post were someone said the poor should not have health care. Find one and post it here...however I have read MANY posts that call out ObummerCare as a failed law.
Did any of you stop and think that we are not against health care for all. We just realize and understand that the morons plan doesn't and will not work? What I find most amusing is you voted against the very man who successfully gave health care to all the folks in Massachusetts yet put the village idiot back in the whitehouse.
If you folks would stop pretending the world is out to get you and start thinking about what you can contribute verses take things would be different.
10's of millions lost their health care plans that worked. New plans are unaffordable.. What part of doesn't work don't you understand? You were lied to and taken as fools yet you still support his failed policies as if you have Stockholm Syndrome. It's concerning very concerning.
Your victim mentality is getting very very old.. The rich this the rich that they are taking food stamps away your racist if Bush had its Bushes fault you want to get rid of Social Security it's a never ending blather of you loosing something verses coming up with a solution that doesn't involve taking something from someone else to satisfy your wants.
From the very first page of this thread:
It is not my job or the government's job to pay for your health care. Period.
I feel that the biggest difference, what it all boils down to is this:
Those of us for the ACA (and particularly those that would have liked a one payer system) see access to health care as a right NOT a privilege.
Those opposed see it as a privilege and not a right.
I see it as a right because, ultimately access to it is a matter of life and death, making it a necessity. Being treated for ailments makes a difference in suffering for not suffering on levels that would be considered inhumane.
It is the ONLY life necessity that carries a price tag most luxury items do. In most cases, procedures, surgeries are priced higher than homes.
Indeed, if you don't have a car or a boat or a plane or the latest TV or gadget , you won't die. Therefore those items don't qualify as a right.. you have to earn the privilege of owning those items.
However, just because you aren't earning a high 6 figure or above salary shouldn't mean that you then suffer and die due to lack of access to healthcare.
I know I care that everyone, regardless of how much money they earn, has access. I don't feel that I'm more deserving of that than any other person, whether they make less or more than me.
And, I feel that access shouldn't mean that people loose everything they have worked for.
I think if we could all agree that healthcare is a right and not a privilege there would still be some disagreement about the ACA, but I think we would be closer together on it than we are. Heck , our healthcare system may not have gotten so bad in the first place.
Its a lot simpler than that ,
Like most other healthcare plans around the world their initiation was welcomed by the people.
The only adversaries to the plan in the USA are the righties who hate their President and have a knee jerk reaction to hate anything he tries to accomplish,=Must hate Obamacare ,hate it, end of world,hate.etc.
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