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Old 11-12-2013, 03:51 AM
 
Location: West Hollywood
2,281 posts, read 4,477,913 times
Reputation: 1851

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelismaticEchoes View Post
You clearly are overlooking Jewish law. Traditionally and this is in the Talmud and OT. One can only be Jewish if at least the mother is a Jew. It's determined based on the mother and maternal line. If the father is Jewish and the mother is NOT, then by Jewish law, that child is NOT a Jew, and they would have to be properly and legally converted under proper observation to be accepted as Jewish.

And Jews have lived in many lands throughout the globe since the beginning so how could they not be truly European, Russian or German etc? A Russian Jew is no different than a Russian Muslim or Russian Christian or those of any other religion or ethnic group. All are 100% true Russians in their own right.
There is so much ignorance here I almost was just going to ignore it.

So I'll put just a tiny bit of effort into actually caring to respond.

You got the first paragraph right about religious Jewish law, but you aren't right about Jewish genetics and ethnicity.

Jews have not lived in 'many lands through the globe since the beginning'.

When did the world begin according to you??? 1825???

A Russian Jew is a Jew living in Russia, not an ethnic Russian.

Jews are NOT European, they were aliens and still remain aliens in Europe. Of course there are some true Slavs and other ethnic groups who somehow converted and mingled into the general Jewish population over several centuries of exile in Europe, but overall Jews remained distinct and separate from their European hosts.

Doesn't mean they didn't belong in Europe, but just because Jews have similar colored skin doesn't mean they are the same as Germans, Russians, etc. So shall we claim that the many blonde, white skinned Palestinians aren't really Palestinian and should be sent back to Europe? Nice try.

I won't even bother listing studies because a simple search will show hundreds of articles showing Ashkenazim come from a unique ethnic background.

Your post shows no understanding of what a Jew is. Stick to the simple methods of identification. I'm sure you'll see a guy in a black hat walking around soon.
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Old 11-12-2013, 03:54 AM
 
38,153 posts, read 38,518,320 times
Reputation: 17750
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelismaticEchoes View Post
Many famous celebrities are openly proud Arab Jews so I don't know what you are talking about.

Arab Jews were used as pawns by the Azhkenazims when Israel was created in 1948. They forced Arab Jews to be airlifted to Israel to support the ridiculous notions of Zionist causes but most Arab Jews wanted to be left alone in solitude and peace.

All of these semantics are poor and sad attempts at creating division. There was so much more peace before 1948, and especially before the ridiculous Balfour Declaration.
The Balfour Declaration was given during World War I. So there was certainly no peace in the region during that time period.

Sent from my GT-S7562 using Tapatalk 2
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Old 11-12-2013, 09:12 AM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
66,577 posts, read 48,692,818 times
Reputation: 36753
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAMERCAT View Post
As a Christian it took a long time to generate much interest in the Old Testament for the reason you mention. Nevertheless it was part of God's plan that He did initially choose them, and in light of all of the current focus on the Middle East, I decided to study the Old Testament which the Jews wrote under God's direct revelation.

When Joshua crossed the Jordan river into Canaan (the modern day West Bank), he had been instructed by Moses to kill all of the inhabitants of the land they were to possess. I believe that many Jews remain there to this day, though they may have been forced to adopt Islam.
But is there any rational reason for the belief in Jews as the 'chosen' people?

As I 've said, Jews wrote the book. Being that Christians reject the Jewish thinking about Jesus, why such belief in other Jewish teachings?
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Old 11-12-2013, 12:27 PM
 
4,516 posts, read 4,499,309 times
Reputation: 1545
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
But is there any rational reason for the belief in Jews as the 'chosen' people?

As I 've said, Jews wrote the book. Being that Christians reject the Jewish thinking about Jesus, why such belief in other Jewish teachings?
The 'Jewish mind' was divided about what to make of Jesus Christ. I don't know the percentage, but a great many Jews did embrace Jesus as the Messiah, such as Paul, who was a Pharasee, as well as the apostles, and they formed the original church. The Jews who rejected Him demanded His death, and this was needed to accomplish God's plan. Human rationality kind of goes out the window when used to try and figure out God's purposes.
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Old 11-12-2013, 12:35 PM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
66,577 posts, read 48,692,818 times
Reputation: 36753
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAMERCAT View Post
The 'Jewish mind' was divided about what to make of Jesus Christ. I don't know the percentage, but a great many Jews did embrace Jesus as the Messiah, such as Paul, who was a Pharasee, as well as the apostles, and they formed the original church. The Jews who rejected Him demanded His death, and this was needed to accomplish God's plan. Human rationality kind of goes out the window when used to try and figure out God's purposes.
This is what bothers me about people who treat then Bible as fact, they pick and choose. They'll tell us that Jews are the 'chosen' because the Old Testament said so and then quickly decide other parts of the OT like dietary restrictions and inanities like the prohibition of wearing 2 different fabrics are meaningless.

Maybe I just never got the right secret Bible decoder ring but it seems to be if 'Intelligent Design' were actually true that there would be rationality in the book. i.e. The more we learn about the natural world the more elegant its explanation through math and physics becomes. If it truly is the work of a creator how can we possibly consider the Bible as the verbatim word of a force so elegant and rational? To me it can only be considered the work of man with all the mortal flaws that implies.

Last edited by burdell; 11-12-2013 at 12:49 PM..
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:28 PM
 
4,516 posts, read 4,499,309 times
Reputation: 1545
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
This is what bothers me about people who treat then Bible as fact, they pick and choose. They'll tell us that Jews are the 'chosen' because the Old Testament said so and then quickly decide other parts of the OT like dietary restrictions and inanities like the prohibition of wearing 2 different fabrics are meaningless.

Maybe I just never got the right secret Bible decoder ring but it seems to be if 'Intelligent Design' were actually true that there would be rationality in the book. i.e. The more we learn about the natural world the more elegant its explanation through math and physics becomes. If it truly is the work of a creator how can we possibly consider the Bible as the verbatim word of a force so elegant and rational? To me it can only be considered the work of man with all the mortal flaws that implies.
There is much in the Old Testament that is hard to accept, but I do in the overall scheme of what God designed. This is due to faith, which to someone without it, seems ridiculous, as it appeared to me, before I obtained it.
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Poshawa, Ontario
2,983 posts, read 3,747,093 times
Reputation: 5622
"Muslim Jew"? Is that kinda like a Catholic Buddhist?
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Old 11-14-2013, 02:01 PM
 
4,516 posts, read 4,499,309 times
Reputation: 1545
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelismaticEchoes View Post
You clearly are overlooking Jewish law. Traditionally and this is in the Talmud and OT. One can only be Jewish if at least the mother is a Jew. It's determined based on the mother and maternal line. If the father is Jewish and the mother is NOT, then by Jewish law, that child is NOT a Jew, and they would have to be properly and legally converted under proper observation to be accepted as Jewish.

And Jews have lived in many lands throughout the globe since the beginning so how could they not be truly European, Russian or German etc? A Russian Jew is no different than a Russian Muslim or Russian Christian or those of any other religion or ethnic group. All are 100% true Russians in their own right.
'One can only be Jewish if at least the mother is a Jew. It's determined based on the mother and maternal line. If the father is Jewish and the mother is NOT, then by Jewish law, that child is NOT a Jew'

Moses had a foreign wife, so you are saying that the children of Moses would not be Jewish?
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Old 11-14-2013, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
36,422 posts, read 22,610,408 times
Reputation: 22782
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAMERCAT View Post
I am using God's definition, namely that His people are the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
I really don't put too much creedence on ancient superstitions.

Back to the OP, Israelis are building more houses in Israel...why is that an issue?
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Old 11-14-2013, 04:19 PM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,715 posts, read 28,123,021 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post

Back to the OP, Israelis are building more houses in Israel...why is that an issue?
I have the same query. Since all the construction is happening on land that the JNF (Jewish National Fund)
purchased from Arabs before 1948 in Judea, Samaria, E. Jerusalem why is it an issue? Per the courts the JNF has the deeds to those properties. Did it being in Arab hands from 1948 to 1967 void out those deeds?
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