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There are no inherent rights anywhere in the world. A given society creates a set of rights which are based upon the dominant ethical positions held by the members of that society. There was a time when wealthy plantation holders had the right to enslave other human beings in The United States. There was also a time when industrialists had the right to abuse small children by requiring them to work seventy hours a week in dangerous conditions for negligible compensation. The list of rights in a given society change based upon that society's social evolution.
Virtually every economically stable democracy in the world has determined that the general health if its citizenry is not only a right to be enjoyed by those citizens, but also an issue of vital national interest. The United States is the outlier on this issue. That is largely because this has become a society which has determined that maintaining the profit streams of the wealthy is far more important than providing the basic necessities to all of its citizens. Unfortunately, social evolution is sometimes replaced by social devolution.
Money? What money? People who think like you do, would be perfectly fine....putting everyone's money in a big pot and distributing it evenly among everyone.
"People who think like" me???
You're wrong. I like having my own money, AND I also like to pay taxes because I like living in this country. I like to vote, and I accept the consequences of elections, and the peaceful turning over of power from one party to another when it happens.
Health care insurance started going downhill in this country during the Great Depression and World War II, despite the numerous technical advances that were made during that period.
Then-President FDR clamped huge restrictions onto many parts of the economy during the Depression (resulting in that depression stretching out further than any ever had in world history), and they became even worse during WWII. One of them was wage and price controls, which became onerous as many able-bodied men joined the armed services to fight in the war.
Attracting talented people to fulfill the jobs they left was tough enough with so many good men joining up, and the govt's wage controls made the situation worse when employers found they couldn't offer higher wages to get people to hire on. Whether this was justifiable, not to say effective, by the war emergency is debatable.
Employers screamed bloody murder as their businesses approached collapse due to unfilled jobs, and while government refused to lift its wage and price controls, they announced the employers could offer benefits in lieu of pay to attract workers. One benefit was a tax exemption for employer-provided health insurance.
This helped somewhat, but with an employer only able to offer a few insurance plans, it locked employees into fairly uncompetetive market unless he changed jobs. And FDR's relatively new policy of "tax withholding" was extended to the employee part of the payments for insurance, further insulating the employee fro the gut-check of having to write weekly or monthly checks to the insurance company.
Employers offered "Cadillac" plans in their efforts to attract workers, and the employees seldom saw the actual cost of those expensive plans, which often paid for routine medications and office visits formerly not covered by real insurance plans. That, plus the lack of competition most insurance companies found themselves facing, removed a lot of their impetus to pare costs. And employees became used to health care which "seemed free", and started thinking of it as something akin to a "right", since it (sort of) appeared to cost nothing.
When the war ended, government did NOT remove the tax exemption for employer-provided health insurance even though the circumstances that made it desirable were now gone. And so health insurance has existed in a strange nether world ever since for most people, with employees of a company locked into the few (or one) insurance plan offered by that company with little likelihood they will ever leave it. At the same time it appeared to cost little or nothing, with even routine services (far beyond the major-event coverage real insurance is for) included and seeming "complimentary".
Fast forward to the 21st century. Now we have self-serving politicians screaming from the rooftops that health care is somehow a "right", though it comes nowhere close to resembling a right to liberty, right to speech, right to self-defense etc. - all of which are based on the fundamental right to be left alone and to associate only voluntarily with others. And most people, used to generations of "free" health care that was caused by that very government long ago, are actually believing it, despite the clear unworkability of the idea, the unnecessary expense and clumsiness of one-size-fits-all (or even three-sizes-fit-all) policies administered from thousand of miles away in Washington.
The cockeyed notion that we somehow have a "right" to have a broken arm set or an infection cleaned and treated by others, came (as so many cockeyed ideas do) from government intrusion into private matters in the first place.
We should be thankful that the government didn't offer tax breaks for food purchased by one's employer. Or by now, the same deluded people would be screaming that they had a "right" to food (some actually believe this one too, after generations of food stamps). Ditto for rent, phone service, etc., all of which have been tainted at one time or another by government programs to make them nearly "free".
Weaning Americans off these destructive addictions to "free" necessities and "rights" that aren't rights and never were, will be painful, as breaking an addiction always is. But it is no less necessary, if we are to survive as sovereign citizens in a free society.
Nice copy and paste, probably bordering on plagiarism.... Teehee.
But seriously, it wasn't a right for women and colored people to vote. Luckily in this country we are constantly evolving and reassessing our views. So spare me, healthcare is a right if we as a country choose so.
And if the recent Obamacare disaster has shown us anything, it's shown us that government-forced health insurance is nowhere near efficient. Even if it was constitutional... which it clearly isn't.
Wrong again. Have you ever been on any short list to be nominated as a United States Supreme Court Justice?
Nice copy and paste, probably bordering on plagiarism.... Teehee.
But seriously, it wasn't a right for women and colored people to vote. Luckily in this country we are constantly evolving and reassessing our views. So spare me, healthcare is a right if we as a country choose so.
Funny enough, Little Acorn posted the same thing on another website. I believe it is his or her thoughts:
Now we have self-serving politicians screaming from the rooftops that health care is somehow a "right", though it comes nowhere close to resembling a right to liberty, right to speech, right to self-defense etc. - all of which are based on the fundamental right to be left alone and to associate only voluntarily with others.
Thats because there are different kinds of rights. The kind you are talking about is known as "natural rights". Basically, rights to not have stuff like your life or liberty taken away from you.
There is another lass of rights "claim rights" which are rights you claim from others. These include a newborn babys right to nuture. If a baby or child dies from neglect, its rights were violated, and someone will go to jail. Right to vote.
Or, more closely related your right to a lawyer if charged with something. Even if you can't pay for one, one will be provided at taxpayer expense.
To keep people from being overrun by legalese they got no background to understand from state or private actors.
Such rights are not based in things you naturally posses, but in laws written into a countrys legal system.
Many nations have found it ethical, economic or practical to include healthcare in the list of such rights, and had very good results from it. Therefore, many people in America feel it is a good idea.
Fast forward to the 21st century. Now we have self-serving politicians screaming from the rooftops that health care is somehow a "right", though it comes nowhere close to resembling a right to liberty, right to speech, right to self-defense etc. - all of which are based on the fundamental right to be left alone and to associate only voluntarily with others. And most people, used to generations of "free" health care that was caused by that very government long ago, are actually believing it, despite the clear unworkability of the idea, the unnecessary expense and clumsiness of one-size-fits-all (or even three-sizes-fit-all) policies administered from thousand of miles away in Washington.
Should people not be permitted to buy something that they want to buy and are able to spend their own money for?
Seems to me that when people talk about health insurance being a "right" what they are actually talking about is access.
Why is/was it acceptable for insurance companies to refuse to sell policies to people who were perfectly willing to spend money for them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn
The cockeyed notion that we somehow have a "right" to have a broken arm set or an infection cleaned and treated by others, came (as so many cockeyed ideas do) from government intrusion into private matters in the first place.
The "cockeyed notion...?" Now I've heard everything. I think that even Hippocrates would be quite surprised to learn that there are some who believe that medical care should be ignored when it is clearly prescribed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn
We should be thankful that the government didn't offer tax breaks for food purchased by one's employer. Or by now, the same deluded people would be screaming that they had a "right" to food (some actually believe this one too, after generations of food stamps). Ditto for rent, phone service, etc., all of which have been tainted at one time or another by government programs to make them nearly "free".
Weaning Americans off these destructive addictions to "free" necessities and "rights" that aren't rights and never were, will be painful, as breaking an addiction always is. But it is no less necessary, if we are to survive as sovereign citizens in a free society.
You do realize that virtually every food item, service, etc. that Americans consume IS subsidized in some fashion right? None of us pays the true cost for gas, for milk, for meat, for produce. Haven't for years.
You want to pay true free market prices, you go right ahead and lobby your elected officials for that privilege.
I have a feeling that you won't get many people jumping on board that train.
Because we are a more highly evolved people and we understand that human life has intrinsic value.......or at least most of us understand that.
...the right to LIFE, liberty, and pursuit of happiness".....one of those things is LIFE, which is hard to sustain without adequate health care.
"Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" is a well-known phrase in the United States Declaration of Independence.[1] The phrase gives examples of the various "unalienable rights" which the Declaration says all human beings have been given by their Creator and for the protection of which they institute governments.
The meaning of that phrase is that nobody can take it away from you without due process. Not being able to afford the services of a doctor is not the same thing as the doctor taking your life from you.
You leeches rationalize stealing from others in such stupid ways. Leftists are ALL criminals.
Do you pay for car insurance?
If so, if you have an accident and your insurance company pays out the cost of replacing your car, let's say $15,000, and you have only paid $5000 over the life of your policy, is that "theft?"
Why/why not.
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