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Your numbers are inaccurate. There are over 47 million people in the U.S. on food stamps. There are MANY who truly need it, and I have no problem offering help when needed. This help should NOT be permanent, from cradle to grave, and there are many abusing the system. People are selling their "EBT" (food stamp cards to get CASH). IF they can do that, then they didn't need it in the first place..
Again, I have no problem whatsoever helping out, when someone needs that help. That help should not be a permanent thing, AND, it should not be something required, because of your own actions. That means, if you are unemployed, (and do not plan on working), you should not be making babies that everyone else needs to support. If you are not working, because you decided to use drugs on the job, punch out your boss, quit because you don't like working, or some other nonsense that is your own fault, then again, I have problems providing you money to live on, and feed yourself. At that point you should go to your church and ask for charity.
I donate to various charities and organizations, I donate to the food bank, toys for tots during the holiday season, etc etc. I am not a heartless person, but I don't feel it's the job of the government to pay for people to keep producing children and not contribute anything else to society, and I don't feel that it's the job of government, AND we the people, to provide a cradle to grave comfortable life to you just because you are capable of converting O2 to CO2.
Means-tested is means-tested. Conservatives always talk about how people's market value for wages. Well if someone's value and skills only leads to low paying jobs, then that means they're always going to qualify for means-tested programs.
If you don't want poor people to always get benefits designed for poor people, then push for changes that don't keep them poor.
You can't sit here and support people earning $8/hr b/c that's what the market commands, and then be upset that they're getting benefits when the only jobs they can get pay them $8/hr.
And the worst part isn't that. It's not the gloating, either. It's the fact that people insist that I am lying about these people existing and what they will do to scam the system.
Believe you. See people like this myself. Spend most of their time playing the system.
Means-tested is means-tested. Conservatives always talk about how people's market value for wages. Well if someone's value and skills only leads to low paying jobs, then that means they're always going to qualify for means-tested programs.
If you don't want poor people to always get benefits designed for poor people, then push for changes that don't keep them poor.
You can't sit here and support people earning $8/hr b/c that's what the market commands, and then be upset that they're getting benefits when the only jobs they can get pay them $8/hr.
First off, the market value for wages, based on skill or knowledge, is not a conservative or liberal thing.
Second, What changes should we push for? I know of any number of people who have only a high school diploma, and they make excellent wages, due to hard work. They learned a skill or trade, and became a valuable asset. I would fall into that category. I don't have a college degree. I raised 2 kids as a single dad. Never was on the dole, never asked for help, and did so as a permanently injured veteran, with restrictions on what I could do physically.
In fact I was laid off, for over 18 months I looked for full time employment, working 2, 3, or 4 part time jobs a week. I was able to pay the mortgage, pay insurance on car, gas and all of the medical bills for my kids, and without asking anyone else to pay my way. Trust me, if I can do it as a single dad with physical limitations, just about ANYONE can do it.
In fact I cannot think of ANYONE in this day and age, who cannot find a way to learn a needed skill or trade. There are Schools, apprenticeships, any number of ways. If you're young, join the military, save up for college.
First off, the market value for wages, based on skill or knowledge, is not a conservative or liberal thing.
Second, What changes should we push for? I know of any number of people who have only a high school diploma, and they make excellent wages, due to hard work. They learned a skill or trade, and became a valuable asset. I would fall into that category. I don't have a college degree. I raised 2 kids as a single dad. Never was on the dole, never asked for help, and did so as a permanently injured veteran, with restrictions on what I could do physically.
In fact I was laid off, for over 18 months I looked for full time employment, working 2, 3, or 4 part time jobs a week. I was able to pay the mortgage, pay insurance on car, gas and all of the medical bills for my kids, and without asking anyone else to pay my way. Trust me, if I can do it as a single dad with physical limitations, just about ANYONE can do it.
In fact I cannot think of ANYONE in this day and age, who cannot find a way to learn a needed skill or trade. There are Schools, apprenticeships, any number of ways. If you're young, join the military, save up for college.
It would be hard for someone without a car to work four part-time jobs unless the scheduling worked out just right - and many part-time jobs don't have schedules like that..
I once had four part-time jobs which worked out because three of the jobs were on campus and one of those was ONLY on football Saturday afternoons.
The problem isn't that these people exist. It's what solution do you have for getting them out of the system w/o impacting someone that actually needs it.
That's one of the big differences between Liberals and Conservatives on the safety net. Conservatives are willing to kick off as many actual needy people as it takes to make them feel like the system isn't being abused.
Outside of severely criminalizing welfare fraud (I'm pretty sure it's already a felony), what else are you going to do force out the leeches?
You provide the necessities while removing the luxuries. You know what they do after a disaster, when people have to sleep in a gymnasium?
Means-tested is means-tested. Conservatives always talk about how people's market value for wages. Well if someone's value and skills only leads to low paying jobs, then that means they're always going to qualify for means-tested programs.
If you don't want poor people to always get benefits designed for poor people, then push for changes that don't keep them poor.
You can't sit here and support people earning $8/hr b/c that's what the market commands, and then be upset that they're getting benefits when the only jobs they can get pay them $8/hr.
How about putting them on a barge and sending them to South America to start over?
First off, the market value for wages, based on skill or knowledge, is not a conservative or liberal thing.
It absolutely is a Con v Lib thing. Conservatives treat market value like it's scripture -- no minimum wage, pay whatever you can get someone to agree to work for, etc. Liberals argue for LIVING wages ie if you're working full-time, you should not need any kind of welfare b/c you're earning enough to foot the bill yourself.
Quote:
Second, What changes should we push for? I know of any number of people who have only a high school diploma, and they make excellent wages, due to hard work. They learned a skill or trade, and became a valuable asset. I would fall into that category. I don't have a college degree. I raised 2 kids as a single dad. Never was on the dole, never asked for help, and did so as a permanently injured veteran, with restrictions on what I could do physically.
How about a wages that don't allow someone who works more than 40 hours/wk to still qualify for assistance?
Quote:
In fact I was laid off, for over 18 months I looked for full time employment, working 2, 3, or 4 part time jobs a week. I was able to pay the mortgage, pay insurance on car, gas and all of the medical bills for my kids, and without asking anyone else to pay my way. Trust me, if I can do it as a single dad with physical limitations, just about ANYONE can do it.
In fact I cannot think of ANYONE in this day and age, who cannot find a way to learn a needed skill or trade. There are Schools, apprenticeships, any number of ways. If you're young, join the military, save up for college.
Why have you decided that your own experience is the bar that everyone should be able to reach? What if someone else did that w/ you. They looked at your life, scoffed and said "Why aren't you an actuary? There are programs and tutoring out there for you, if you want it."
Consider this: Whatever economic quintile you grow up in, you're probably going to stay there, and you're almost guaranteed to not move up more than one quintile in your life.
Ya don't get a subsidized apartment.
Ya don't get budget
Ya don't get any privileges.
If people can tent camp for weeks in the out doors...
How...200 years ago on the frontier? How.
Why are Conservatives so adamant about making assistance humiliating? I don't understand this thinking. You're more likely to dissuade honest people that legitimately need the help than you are to dissuade the scammers.
IF you make it embarrassing and dehumanizing to use social services who's more likely to avoid using them: the former professional who needs temporary help, or the scammer w/o the self-respect to work an honest job?
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This woman wants to know, "why work?"
