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Old 11-30-2013, 12:49 PM
 
229 posts, read 209,928 times
Reputation: 165

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If there is ever a revolution or civil unrest (I hope not) in this country,all of you anti-gun people are going to be rounded up like sheep. You all are going to wish you had guns to protect yourself and your family.

Do you think that the majority of gun owners and supporters own guns to commit crimes or hurt in innocent people? NO

Please!!! Don't say I'll never happen...its possible. "Its better to be safe then sorry"
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Old 11-30-2013, 01:26 PM
 
1,114 posts, read 1,449,840 times
Reputation: 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
Yes you are right Europeans don't care about liberty, freedom or the ill will of criminals and tyrants..
I guess violent crime does not happen, nor does the mob go after anyone, nor do tyrants sick their dogs on those who stand against. I guess Benito Mussolini and Adolf Hitler did not target groups and murder them...I guess this never happens in Europe.
As usual, you go off topic repeating ad nauseam the same garbage...

I'm extremely confused: could you please tell me what kind of rights europeans don't enjoy?
Tell me, 'cause I'm confused...

Also, Mussolini and Hitler F**k yeah, you're right, genius! We all know that there are still tyrants and dictatorships in Europe
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Old 11-30-2013, 01:30 PM
 
1,114 posts, read 1,449,840 times
Reputation: 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
Hey did I say that? I am saying that study about Nevada being such a high crime state is flawed, greatly.

You are aware you can read post before you respond to them? Right?
Sorry, I didn't understand that you were talking just about Nevada.
I thought you were talking about USA as a whole... anyway, that doesn't change anything: Nevada is still a high crime state... not surprised, too many crazy and trashy people there
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Old 11-30-2013, 01:31 PM
 
1,114 posts, read 1,449,840 times
Reputation: 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
It defines freedom of choice, freedom of free will and freedom from arbitrary laws and regulations that strip power, freedom, liberty, and unalienable rights from the individual and reduce them to privilege to be granted by the government.
What a shame that conservatives ignore other more important rights
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Old 11-30-2013, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,151,308 times
Reputation: 1530
Quote:
Originally Posted by italianuser View Post
As usual, you go off topic repeating ad nauseam the same garbage...

I'm extremely confused: could you please tell me what kind of rights europeans don't enjoy?
Tell me, 'cause I'm confused...

Also, Mussolini and Hitler F**k yeah, you're right, genius! We all know that there are still tyrants and dictatorships in Europe
So Benito Mussolini, Francisco Franco and Adolf Hitler did not target groups and murder them?

I am sorry you can not understand and see this...Its funny how we are "uneducated" and "paranoid" for reading history and understanding basic human nature..
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Old 11-30-2013, 01:41 PM
 
1,114 posts, read 1,449,840 times
Reputation: 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
So Benito Mussolini, Francisco Franco and Adolf Hitler did not target groups and murder them?
Yes.

And so what?

Are you tellin' me that if the jews had been armed they could have defeated Hitler's army?
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Old 11-30-2013, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,151,308 times
Reputation: 1530
Quote:
Originally Posted by italianuser View Post
Yes.

And so what?

Are you tellin' me that if the jews had been armed they could have defeated Hitler's army?
Yes they could have fought them buying time for others to leave, to escape for safer areas like Sweden, Finland, Italy(which did not obey The orders to send the Jews via rail to German camps) Spain, or the Middle East.


So yes that could have defend themselves, taking out an army? not likely..but this idea that they should have be just disarmed, not fought back and when quality into the night, or in their case, "go take a shower" to just give up, to not resist evil and tyranny, to just be sheep and not try to fight for you life, your liberty, your culture...What the hell makes a person believe and spout such defeatist crap?

"Are all of you insane? What you are describing is utter suicide! We have no chance at all against the
forces that will surely be massed against us if we persist in this madness!" The speaker was the man who
had earlier accused Irwin of being no different from the Nazis, and had been rebuked by Stern. A few
voices murmured agreement. Anyone who stopped to think about what they were planning could not avoid
being overwhelmed by the enormity of the task they faced.

Read Unintended Consequences By John Ross page 62-63

http://www.zjstech.net/~ddixson/Unin...nsequences.pdf

"Perhaps I can convince you otherwise." All heads turned towards the newest speaker.

"I am not a Jew, I am from Warsaw originally. My wife is a Jew, and I am a teacher. A teacher of history,
who has some knowledge of warfare and battles." He paused, framing his explanation in his mind before
speaking. "In every war, but particularly those wars that have been fought in the last 150 years, there have
been many examples of superior attacking forces being repelled by defenders with woefully smaller
manpower and weaponry. Many scholars wrongly assume that this is the result of embellishment, because
of our natural tendency to wish that the weak prevail through sheer bravery, just as David smote Goliath."
He shook his head slowly. "That is not at all the correct explanation." His audience waited for him to
continue.

"The nature of warfare changed forever with the development of weapons which could be carried by a
single soldier and yet were capable of dealing a lethal blow at a distance." He paused to let those words
sink in.

"With the advent of such weapons, the determining factor in any single ground conflict was altered for all
time." The man's nervousness vanished as he fell into the familiar role of teacher lecturing his class. It had
been two years since he had been a free man, but the rhythm and method came back immediately.

"With swords and shields, all conflicts were out in the open, and the combatants had to be close enough to
touch each other for any fighting to happen at all. Sheer numbers were by far the most important factor in
determining the outcome of a battle.

"When the bow and arrow came into use, this was changed somewhat, but arrows fly slowly enough to be
visible, and are effective only at short distances. A shield easily stops them, and the bow is unwieldy when
the enemy is close at hand and charging with his sword and shield."
Irwin Mann could see where the scholar was leading, and the hairs on his back stood up. The speaker
continued his explanation.

"The crossbow was powerful enough to penetrate shields and armor, and could be used at greater distances.
A man who concealed himself behind obstacles could make life very unpleasant for six strong men who
were trying to kill him, if that man had a crossbow and could use it well.
"The advantage shifted much further in favor of the defending side as more accurate and compact weapons
were invented that were usable at greater distances. We are all familiar with how an American band of
farmers defeated the finest army in the world during their War of Independence.

"I am perhaps more familiar than the rest of you with the events of that war, not only because of my former
profession, but also because Casimir Pulaski and Tadeusz Kosciuszko, two Poles who fought with the
Americans, are national heroes here. Perhaps a history lesson about that war will be helpful to our own
plans." He saw that he had their attention, and launched into his lecture. The old habits of teaching a group
came back instantly.

"In 1775, with the exception of Switzerland, every single country on earth, if it was ruled at all, was ruled
by kings—kings that had the divine authority to do anything that they pleased by virtue of their birth." He
paused to let that sink in before adding, "Men who often behaved much like Adolf Hitler.

"France was ruled by King Louis XVI. What we now call Germany was ruled by King Frederick II of
Prussia. Russia was ruled by the Tsar Peter Ill's widow, Catherine the Great. China was ruled by Emperor
Ch'ien Lung. Japan was ruled by Emperor Tokugawa. All of Latin America was ruled by King Charles III
of Spain, except for Brazil, which was ruled by King Joseph of Portugal. Scandinavia was under the power
of the King Gustav III of Sweden. Africa was a vast continent of waning tribes, each with its own tribal
king. That continent had small coastal pockets of organized civilization. Every one of those was ruled by
the king of the European country that had colonized it, like King George, who ruled England and all its
colonies." He stopped to take a breath, and saw that the group's attention was total. "That included the
colonies in America."

Lecturing transformed the Pole into a different man. There was unmistakable steel in his voice as he
continued the history lesson, and the men in the group were transfixed by his words. He was a powerful
instructor.

"We must never forget just who these people were. The British soldiers' uniforms of the day were bright
red, and it is far too easy to think of them as amusing, costumed characters in a children's play. Perhaps you
have recently noticed some ornate uniforms which by themselves might be seen as amusing." This brought
nods of understanding from his audience. "The British Army was one of the largest, strongest, best trained,
and best equipped armies in the entire world. In 1775, they were the SS. They were the Gestapo!"

"A bunch of farmers said no to that army. They said they would not be ruled by a king. They said they were
going to determine their own destiny. Those farmers fought that world-class army, and they drove it all the
way back into Boston. The men in that world-class army who were still alive hid in Boston and were afraid
to come out because those fanners would kill them as soon as they did." He paused again and tried to make
eye contact with every man in the room.

"And that is why a famous American poet called it 'The Shot Heard 'Round the World'. It took a long time
for the sound of that shot to reach France, and Germany, and Italy, and Asia, but reach them it did. Do you
think there would have been a French Revolution if the Americans had not shown that it could be done?"
Most of the men in the room shook their heads involuntarily.
"In some countries, the people have not yet been able to wrest control of their destiny from tyrants. That is
why America has become the adopted home of many of the world's oppressed people.


"Bravery and heroism are absolutely necessary, make no mistake about that. We will certainly fail if we are
unwilling to take the risks required. But those American farmers had an advantage in addition to their
bravery. They had weapons which could be used from positions of concealment, and were skilled at using
them. That is how they protected themselves from the attacking forces. It is how we will do it as well."
"But the Nazis have many more of these same weapons, and are much more skilled at using them!" blurted
out one of the group. The former history teacher smiled and addressed his pupil.

"That does not matter to nearly the degree that you believe, my friend. As defenders, we possess a great
advantage. In order for the Nazis to do us harm, they must come search us out. Look for us. Smash in doors
and break windows, never knowing what they will find. They cannot do these things without regularly
exposing themselves. From our positions of concealment, we can kill them, take their weapons, and return
to different hiding places." The men in the group looked at one another, further sobered by the speaker's
words.

"In modern ground warfare, when an attacking force intends to overpower an entrenched adve rsary, the
attacking force must be vastly superior in number, and must be willing to pay a very high price of heavy
losses of its own soldiers. I am not at all convinced that the soldiers assigned to guard Warsaw will be eager
to pay such a price."

"The Storm Troopers had no trouble before, when they broke our windows and smashed our doors to send
us here like sheep for slaughter," a voice said from the back of the room. An older man standing next to
Irwin spoke up in reply.

"The Nazis were not stupid. In fact, they were very logical. They knew that in order to accomplish what
they intended, we had to pose no threat. We had to be stripped of the ability to defend ourselves. Do you
not remember the law passed five years ago prohibiting us from having guns without government
permission?"

The history teacher nodded. "The Americans wrote that very issue into their list of fundamental citizens'
rights, a part of their Constitution, so that such tragedy could never again occur in their country." He
paused, a sudden realization coming to him. "Does it not seem odd to you that the Nazi leader has avoided
any effort to send his troops to invade tiny, rich Switzerland? That instead he should concentrate on a larger
country far more distant, and requiring a crossing of the English Channel?"

Another man spoke up quickly. "I have been to Switzerland several times, and England twice. Each Swiss
home I have seen contains a machine gun." At this statement, the group erupted with protests of disbelief.
"No, it is true," said another over the hushed arguing. "I have seen it myself."
"When I was in England," said a man who was speaking for the first time, "A few of the wealthy had
shotguns for shooting game birds." Murmurs of disapproval coursed though the assembled men. Killing
animals for sport was contrary to Jewish law. "I saw no weapons such as we have here, that would be most
suitable for repelling invaders."

"The English expect the Americans to rescue them," said a new voice. The history teacher replied to this.

"Is that not ironic, given that it was the English who attempted to disarm the Colonists a century and a half
ago?" Puzzled looks greeted his question. The teacher looked startled. "Have you never heard of one of
their favorite stories? Of Paul Revere?" A few heads nodded. "Paul Revere is an American hero because he
warned the Colonists that the British were on their way to seize their weapons, and the Colonists said no."

"If the Colonists had said yes, and stacked their arms for confiscation as we did five years ago, the
Colonists would have been executed, and every country ruled by a king in 1775 would probably still be ruled by a king today."

But then again, "what difference does it make?

Last edited by gunlover; 11-30-2013 at 03:02 PM..
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Old 12-01-2013, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,151,308 times
Reputation: 1530
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
Yes they could have fought them buying time for others to leave, to escape for safer areas like Sweden, Finland, Italy(which did not obey The orders to send the Jews via rail to German camps) Spain, or the Middle East.


So yes that could have defend themselves, taking out an army? not likely..but this idea that they should have be just disarmed, not fought back and when quality into the night, or in their case, "go take a shower" to just give up, to not resist evil and tyranny, to just be sheep and not try to fight for you life, your liberty, your culture...What the hell makes a person believe and spout such defeatist crap?

"Are all of you insane? What you are describing is utter suicide! We have no chance at all against the
forces that will surely be massed against us if we persist in this madness!" The speaker was the man who
had earlier accused Irwin of being no different from the Nazis, and had been rebuked by Stern. A few
voices murmured agreement. Anyone who stopped to think about what they were planning could not avoid
being overwhelmed by the enormity of the task they faced.

Read Unintended Consequences By John Ross page 62-63

http://www.zjstech.net/~ddixson/Unin...nsequences.pdf

"Perhaps I can convince you otherwise." All heads turned towards the newest speaker.

"I am not a Jew, I am from Warsaw originally. My wife is a Jew, and I am a teacher. A teacher of history,
who has some knowledge of warfare and battles." He paused, framing his explanation in his mind before
speaking. "In every war, but particularly those wars that have been fought in the last 150 years, there have
been many examples of superior attacking forces being repelled by defenders with woefully smaller
manpower and weaponry. Many scholars wrongly assume that this is the result of embellishment, because
of our natural tendency to wish that the weak prevail through sheer bravery, just as David smote Goliath."
He shook his head slowly. "That is not at all the correct explanation." His audience waited for him to
continue.

"The nature of warfare changed forever with the development of weapons which could be carried by a
single soldier and yet were capable of dealing a lethal blow at a distance." He paused to let those words
sink in.

"With the advent of such weapons, the determining factor in any single ground conflict was altered for all
time." The man's nervousness vanished as he fell into the familiar role of teacher lecturing his class. It had
been two years since he had been a free man, but the rhythm and method came back immediately.

"With swords and shields, all conflicts were out in the open, and the combatants had to be close enough to
touch each other for any fighting to happen at all. Sheer numbers were by far the most important factor in
determining the outcome of a battle.

"When the bow and arrow came into use, this was changed somewhat, but arrows fly slowly enough to be
visible, and are effective only at short distances. A shield easily stops them, and the bow is unwieldy when
the enemy is close at hand and charging with his sword and shield."
Irwin Mann could see where the scholar was leading, and the hairs on his back stood up. The speaker
continued his explanation.

"The crossbow was powerful enough to penetrate shields and armor, and could be used at greater distances.
A man who concealed himself behind obstacles could make life very unpleasant for six strong men who
were trying to kill him, if that man had a crossbow and could use it well.
"The advantage shifted much further in favor of the defending side as more accurate and compact weapons
were invented that were usable at greater distances. We are all familiar with how an American band of
farmers defeated the finest army in the world during their War of Independence.

"I am perhaps more familiar than the rest of you with the events of that war, not only because of my former
profession, but also because Casimir Pulaski and Tadeusz Kosciuszko, two Poles who fought with the
Americans, are national heroes here. Perhaps a history lesson about that war will be helpful to our own
plans." He saw that he had their attention, and launched into his lecture. The old habits of teaching a group
came back instantly.

"In 1775, with the exception of Switzerland, every single country on earth, if it was ruled at all, was ruled
by kings—kings that had the divine authority to do anything that they pleased by virtue of their birth." He
paused to let that sink in before adding, "Men who often behaved much like Adolf Hitler.

"France was ruled by King Louis XVI. What we now call Germany was ruled by King Frederick II of
Prussia. Russia was ruled by the Tsar Peter Ill's widow, Catherine the Great. China was ruled by Emperor
Ch'ien Lung. Japan was ruled by Emperor Tokugawa. All of Latin America was ruled by King Charles III
of Spain, except for Brazil, which was ruled by King Joseph of Portugal. Scandinavia was under the power
of the King Gustav III of Sweden. Africa was a vast continent of waning tribes, each with its own tribal
king. That continent had small coastal pockets of organized civilization. Every one of those was ruled by
the king of the European country that had colonized it, like King George, who ruled England and all its
colonies." He stopped to take a breath, and saw that the group's attention was total. "That included the
colonies in America."

Lecturing transformed the Pole into a different man. There was unmistakable steel in his voice as he
continued the history lesson, and the men in the group were transfixed by his words. He was a powerful
instructor.

"We must never forget just who these people were. The British soldiers' uniforms of the day were bright
red, and it is far too easy to think of them as amusing, costumed characters in a children's play. Perhaps you
have recently noticed some ornate uniforms which by themselves might be seen as amusing." This brought
nods of understanding from his audience. "The British Army was one of the largest, strongest, best trained,
and best equipped armies in the entire world. In 1775, they were the SS. They were the Gestapo!"

"A bunch of farmers said no to that army. They said they would not be ruled by a king. They said they were
going to determine their own destiny. Those farmers fought that world-class army, and they drove it all the
way back into Boston. The men in that world-class army who were still alive hid in Boston and were afraid
to come out because those fanners would kill them as soon as they did." He paused again and tried to make
eye contact with every man in the room.

"And that is why a famous American poet called it 'The Shot Heard 'Round the World'. It took a long time
for the sound of that shot to reach France, and Germany, and Italy, and Asia, but reach them it did. Do you
think there would have been a French Revolution if the Americans had not shown that it could be done?"
Most of the men in the room shook their heads involuntarily.
"In some countries, the people have not yet been able to wrest control of their destiny from tyrants. That is
why America has become the adopted home of many of the world's oppressed people.


"Bravery and heroism are absolutely necessary, make no mistake about that. We will certainly fail if we are
unwilling to take the risks required. But those American farmers had an advantage in addition to their
bravery. They had weapons which could be used from positions of concealment, and were skilled at using
them. That is how they protected themselves from the attacking forces. It is how we will do it as well."
"But the Nazis have many more of these same weapons, and are much more skilled at using them!" blurted
out one of the group. The former history teacher smiled and addressed his pupil.

"That does not matter to nearly the degree that you believe, my friend. As defenders, we possess a great
advantage. In order for the Nazis to do us harm, they must come search us out. Look for us. Smash in doors
and break windows, never knowing what they will find. They cannot do these things without regularly
exposing themselves. From our positions of concealment, we can kill them, take their weapons, and return
to different hiding places." The men in the group looked at one another, further sobered by the speaker's
words.

"In modern ground warfare, when an attacking force intends to overpower an entrenched adve rsary, the
attacking force must be vastly superior in number, and must be willing to pay a very high price of heavy
losses of its own soldiers. I am not at all convinced that the soldiers assigned to guard Warsaw will be eager
to pay such a price."

"The Storm Troopers had no trouble before, when they broke our windows and smashed our doors to send
us here like sheep for slaughter," a voice said from the back of the room. An older man standing next to
Irwin spoke up in reply.

"The Nazis were not stupid. In fact, they were very logical. They knew that in order to accomplish what
they intended, we had to pose no threat. We had to be stripped of the ability to defend ourselves. Do you
not remember the law passed five years ago prohibiting us from having guns without government
permission?"

The history teacher nodded. "The Americans wrote that very issue into their list of fundamental citizens'
rights, a part of their Constitution, so that such tragedy could never again occur in their country." He
paused, a sudden realization coming to him. "Does it not seem odd to you that the Nazi leader has avoided
any effort to send his troops to invade tiny, rich Switzerland? That instead he should concentrate on a larger
country far more distant, and requiring a crossing of the English Channel?"

Another man spoke up quickly. "I have been to Switzerland several times, and England twice. Each Swiss
home I have seen contains a machine gun." At this statement, the group erupted with protests of disbelief.
"No, it is true," said another over the hushed arguing. "I have seen it myself."
"When I was in England," said a man who was speaking for the first time, "A few of the wealthy had
shotguns for shooting game birds." Murmurs of disapproval coursed though the assembled men. Killing
animals for sport was contrary to Jewish law. "I saw no weapons such as we have here, that would be most
suitable for repelling invaders."

"The English expect the Americans to rescue them," said a new voice. The history teacher replied to this.

"Is that not ironic, given that it was the English who attempted to disarm the Colonists a century and a half
ago?" Puzzled looks greeted his question. The teacher looked startled. "Have you never heard of one of
their favorite stories? Of Paul Revere?" A few heads nodded. "Paul Revere is an American hero because he
warned the Colonists that the British were on their way to seize their weapons, and the Colonists said no."

"If the Colonists had said yes, and stacked their arms for confiscation as we did five years ago, the
Colonists would have been executed, and every country ruled by a king in 1775 would probably still be ruled by a king today."

But then again, "what difference does it make?
What italianuser? no come back?
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