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Thanks to the politicians who came up with the ridiculous idea to doll out money to high schoolers to go to college, we have ended up with a system of higher education that is a complete joke.
(1) The majority of jobs in the economy don't, and never will, necessitate academic skills beyond basic reading, writing and arithmetic, which is what K-12 is supposed to teach you.
(2) To build off point (1), making a college degree the new high school degree motivates high schools into becoming college prep centers, meaning they teach to the test and inflate grades to try and get kids into college, where they're expected to undergo remedial education for their mediocre skills coming out of high school.
(3) For the few jobs that do necessitate academic skills beyond what is supposed to be learned in high school, 4 years and $100,000 is a too expensive. The "4-year education" at a brick-and-mortar institution is antiquated and the time period is arbitrary.
(4) Most people aren't intelligent enough for college-level learning; so, to meet the artificial demand for college-educated workers, "degree mills" sprout up and college courses are dumbed down to let idiots through.
I think there is an overemphasis on "college". Not everyone is cut out for "college", but there is a need for people to be educated.
I think the real disconnect takes place as kids approach their junior/senior year in high school. Guidance counselors are not necessarily equipped (nor have sufficient bandwidth) to "guide" kids, and parents often don't know how to guide their kids sometimes. What if what you're good at doesn't require a 4-year degree? Could you obtain the necessary skills with a 2 year degree? A trade school?
College costs in general are laughable. I have a good friend whose daughter attends Tulane. It's $56,000 a year for everything. In 4 years, he will have spent the same amount he spent buying his 2800 sq. ft. home 8 years ago just so his daughter is .......educated? Then what??
Disagree.
1) College is much more affordable and accessible in other 1st world countries.
2) dumbing down America and having a bigger high-school-diploma-only population is a bad idea when less skilled jobs can be shipped overseas. We'll wind up with a Walmart employee population with no hope or skills to do better.
3) when the economy turns around we'll need these college degree skills
4) this sounds like another right wing attack that mocks higher education
As long as high schools are failing to teach students, I see colleges as being necessary. Today's colleges and universities are forced to teach remedial reading, grammar, and mathematics just to bring their first-year students up to high school level, before they begin to comprehend college level courses.
A high school diploma and at least two years of college today is equivalent to a GED back in the 1960s.
The politicians in this country don't want your kids educated and capable of critical thinking, they want them socialized to accept bigger government. We are seeing the results of that propagandizing in our schools and in the media with the low-information Millennial generation. It's going to get worse until a sizable number of citizens wake the F up, take ownership of their own children, and pull their kids out of public schools.
Disagree.
1) College is much more affordable and accessible in other 1st world countries.
2) dumbing down America and having a bigger high-school-diploma-only population is a bad idea when less skilled jobs can be shipped overseas. We'll wind up with a Walmart employee population with no hope or skills to do better.
3) when the economy turns around we'll need these college degree skills
4) this sounds like another right wing screed that mocks higher education
i kind of have to agree with katzpaw, to a point;
1: true, college here is much more affordable that in other countries, which is why the wealthy in those countries send their kids here and pay the foreign tuition rates to educate them in this country.
2: i agree to a point again. the problem is that the good manufacturing jobs are coming and going in this country, and a big part of that problem is government caused, and another big part in union caused. excessive regulations and strict unbending work rules are causing a lot of problems and expense that manufacturers have decided isnt worth the effort in this country, so they move the jobs they can to other countries.
3: there are a lot of job that there is no need for a college degree, only real experience can help. you can have all the college degrees you want, but it wont help you one whit working in a hotel when facing an unruly guest, or in a restaurant dealing with the mess left behind by a guests unruly children. and these are jobs that need to be filled. along with the jobs of ditch diggers, sewer workers, etc. these jobs dont require college degrees, and neither do jobs like auto mechanics, aircraft mechanics, etc. do you really need a paint and body man that went to harvard?
4: this is not a bash education thread, its a lets support education that is really needed thread. not everyone is cut out for college. technical school would be much better for them. let them learn to drive heavy equipment, repair mechanical items, test and repair computers(they are not designing them after all), etc. i am a conservative, and i am a believer in continuing education, but the reality is that not everyone needs a college degree to get ahead in this world, they just need the drive to get ahead, and to take advantage of the opportunities put in front of them, and the cojones to step up and take the risks that come with those opportunities. remember the bigger the risk, the bigger the reward.
As long as high schools are failing to teach students, I see colleges as being necessary. Today's colleges and universities are forced to teach remedial reading, grammar, and mathematics just to bring their first-year students up to high school level, before they begin to comprehend college level courses.
A high school diploma and at least two years of college today is equivalent to a GED back in the 1960s.
So kids who failed to pay attention the first time (when the education was free) will now have to PAY for the same classes.
So kids who failed to pay attention the first time (when the education was free) will now have to PAY for the same classes.
Education is never free. We just do not charge children for their education.
It also means that college professors are reduced to teaching rudimentary reading, grammar, and mathematics. Ever wonder why a college education cost so much these days?
Point 1/2) No one is forcing people to go to college when they don't want to. If any employer wants it for their employees, that's their business. If they want more money, or jobs, that require college education...they need to take responsibility in order to do so.
Are you advocating forcing employers to change their standards because you feel college is not required for that job? Are you against capitalism?
Also, if High Schools actually were prep schools for college then students wouldn't need the remedial classes to start college.
Point 3) People can easily get out of college with a basic 4 year degree for much less money and time. It can also take more if people want something like an MD. You have this idea of what college entilis that doesn't really reference reality. Many colleges are cheaper for a 4 year degree. I got a 4 year degree and a masters for a little more than a quarter of that for tuition, and worked during that time, at an internationally accredited university.
4) So if companies forge diplomas it is all college's fault? Are forged documents the fault of anyone who issues them legitimately?
Should we get rid of credit cards because people forge cards, paperwork, and even steal identities?
Would we get rid of drivers licenses because people have fake ID's?
Should we get rid of medical licenses because people like to pretend they can practice medicine?
College has less to do with intelligence, and much more to do with hard work. You can be the smartest person in the world, but if you refuse to open the books and go to class...you will still fail.
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