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Old 11-24-2013, 06:35 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13712

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusilier0770 View Post
What is moral is having an obligation to the society that we live in, otherwise we would all still be living in caves breaking rocks Big difference between slavery verses taxation, is you have the FREEDOM and LIBERTY to march yourself out of here if the commonly agreed to rules of society become to onerous. Their is no fugitive slave law out there to chase you down and bring you back to the plantation if you want to leave the country. If you want to go to Iceland or Russia or wherever, the U.S. isn't going to stop you. Our current government did not come about in the last decade, it has been a slow process as our society has determined what they want for the government to do. May not be what YOU want them to do, but that is beside the point. I, as an American citizen understand that I have an obligation to contribute to the wealth and stability of this country. Some of my contributions will directly benefit me, some indirectly, and some not at all, but taken as a whole, they are what makes us a great and prosperous nation.
I get all that. And it would make sense if EVERYONE contributes. But NOT everyone does. Therefore, your attempt to rationalize what amounts to nothing more than the tax SLAVERY of some but not all, fails.

IF you truly believed what you posted, you would agree that EVERYONE should pay at least a flat tax, if not a head tax, for the privilege of living in this country.
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Old 11-24-2013, 06:37 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,745,361 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
I hear it said by many lefties....but what is your true definition of "fair"?

It's quite simple for me.....you get back what you put into life. Nobody owes you anything simply because you exist.

"Fair" generally means "what's best for me", in most peoples minds.

"Fair" is subjective to most.
What seems simple, it is usually wrong...

Since people's lives are all different, and in many ways because of reasons they are not to blame or credit for, a simple input = output approach is unfair. It might seem fair to those who are lucky enough to benefit from that simple approach, but essentially it is nothing but disguised egoism.
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Old 11-24-2013, 06:40 AM
 
143 posts, read 122,173 times
Reputation: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
I get all that. And it would make sense if EVERYONE contributes. But NOT everyone does. Therefore, your attempt to rationalize what amounts to nothing more than the tax SLAVERY of some but not all, fails.

IF you truly believed what you posted, you would agree that EVERYONE should pay at least a flat tax, if not a head tax, for the privilege of living in this country.
In that context, yes, absolutely, unless their is a viable reason they can't (i.e. too old, too sick, etc.). If they can't find viable employment on their own, then maybe the government find them something to contribute to the health of the nation like the old CCC/WPA programs.
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Old 11-24-2013, 06:42 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13712
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusilier0770 View Post
Their is no fugitive slave law out there to chase you down and bring you back to the plantation if you want to leave the country.
Actually, there IS in fact a fugitive slave law that brings one's earnings back to the U.S. if one decides to expatriate and flee...

Expatriates Must Pay Heavy Costs in Taxes | TIME.com
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Old 11-24-2013, 06:45 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13712
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusilier0770 View Post
In that context, yes, absolutely, unless their is a viable reason they can't (i.e. too old, too sick, etc.). If they can't find viable employment on their own, then maybe the government find them something to contribute to the health of the nation like the old CCC/WPA programs.
They should, but they don't. Hence, the U.S.'s current policy of tax slavery.
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Old 11-24-2013, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,077,572 times
Reputation: 3954
Hypothetical question:

You have been trained in the Heimlich Maneuver. You are in a restaurant, when the man in the table next to you begins chocking on a piece of meat. He turns blue and falls from his chair.

Is it unfair for you to perform the Heimlich Maneuver on the choking man without also performing it on everybody else in the restaurant?
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Old 11-24-2013, 06:52 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13712
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Hypothetical question:

You have been trained in the Heimlich Maneuver. You are in a restaurant, when the man in the table next to you begins chocking on a piece of meat. He turns blue and falls from his chair.

Is it fair to perform the Heimlich Maneuver on the choking man without also performing it on everybody else in the restaurant?
How is performing the Heimlich Maneuver on that one man not a VOLUNTARY action?

Hypothetical question: An entire crowded restaurant's staff and patronage witnesses the man choking and no one steps up to perform the Heimlich Maneuver. Are there penalties and/or jail time levied against those who choose to not help the man?

Hypothetical question: New Yorkers hear a woman repeatedly scream because she's being attacked, and not one of them responds to help. Instead, they shut their windows and turn the TV volume louder. Are there penalties and/or jail time levied against those who choose to not help?
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Old 11-24-2013, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,077,572 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
How is performing the Heimlich Maneuver on that one man not a VOLUNTARY action?
Don't know, don't care.

Is it fair?
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Old 11-24-2013, 07:10 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13712
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Don't know, don't care.

Is it fair?
We don't live in the vacuum of liberal fanatasyland.

You're deliberately avoiding my rebuttal hypothetical questions because you know they destroy your logic.
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Old 11-24-2013, 07:11 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,745,361 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
How is performing the Heimlich Maneuver on that one man not a VOLUNTARY action?

Hypothetical question: An entire crowded restaurant's staff and patronage witnesses the man choking and no one steps up to perform the Heimlich Maneuver. Are there penalties and/or jail time levied against those who choose to not help the man?

Hypothetical question: New Yorkers hear a woman repeatedly scream because she's being attacked, and not one of them responds to help. Instead, they shut their windows and turn the TV volume louder. Are there penalties and/or jail time levied against those who choose to not help?
The first question is difficult to answer as most people simply don't know that Heimlich thingy. Now, if people knew it and chose not to help, they should be punished of course. Just like with your second question. I guess it's called non-assistance of a person in danger or duty to rescue. It depends on the country, in Germany for instance not helping a person in danger is a criminal offense legally speaking.
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