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Old 11-22-2013, 08:21 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,218 posts, read 7,725,896 times
Reputation: 2037

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDusr View Post
Good luck with that.
Right huh? My point was that we do have the money. We have the money to do quite a bit if we shift our priorities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDusr View Post
Revenue is a very specific accounting term. If you go and look at the treasurer and many CAFRs you will see tons of different funds invested. You can look at what they are invested in. Revenue, assets, business activities etc... Local CAFRs are easiest to see. Even then CAFRs vary. Some are better about carrying numbers forward and the specific fund reports. Basically, the FED govt is the main corp all the others are subsidiaries. (districts, cities, counties, state etc...) These are all separate. For example a State CAFR is not inclusive of those other CAFRS. Been estimated about 230,000 of these entities. Commingled Funds should be focused on.

It is a network system that is spread out. The returns on the investments are largely off budget. They have some very creative accounting tricks.

Here this will get you started. This is where all the action is. All about the investments. This is why the offshoring occurred in 90's.
I'm just not following your point then..... Is it a good thing or bad thing the govt is making money off these investments?
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Old 11-22-2013, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Newport Coast, California
471 posts, read 565,061 times
Reputation: 1141
Employer based healthcare is a perverse outcropping started back in the 40's to avoid wage inflation concerns.

Employer based healthcare makes most of us indentured servants to our employers. It is bad for the economy because it restricts the free flow of labor and entrepreneurship because it is very difficult to get good coverage on the individual market if you have had any sort of illness. Thus people are somewhat trapped to ensure they have good medical insurance, particularly in the middle classes.

Single payer would save hundreds of billions. We could do it tomorrow by just extending Medicare, its already in place. Its not perfect, but our current system is beyond out of control.

Every civilized country on earth has single payer, except the United States. Let's see what is working around the world, learn from others mistakes and lets set a new standard for single payer excellence! I believe in the ingenuity of this country to figure it out. This current system is falling apart as was before the ACA. In fact, the failures of the current system are exactly why ACA got passed in the first place.
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Old 11-22-2013, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Flyover Country
26,224 posts, read 18,295,337 times
Reputation: 21653
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenZephyr View Post
Employer based healthcare is a perverse outcropping started back in the 40's to avoid wage inflation concerns.

Employer based healthcare makes most of us indentured servants to our employers. It is bad for the economy because it restricts the free flow of labor and entrepreneurship because it is very difficult to get good coverage on the individual market if you have had any sort of illness. Thus people are somewhat trapped to ensure they have good medical insurance, particularly in the middle classes.

Single payer would save hundreds of billions. We could do it tomorrow by just extending Medicare, its already in place. Its not perfect, but our current system is beyond out of control.

Every civilized country on earth has single payer, except the United States. Let's see what is working around the world, learn from others mistakes and lets set a new standard for single payer excellence! I believe in the ingenuity of this country to figure it out. This current system is falling apart as was before the ACA. In fact, the failures of the current system are exactly why ACA got passed in the first place.

That's all absolutely true, but the power of the corporate media, and the rabid frenzy with which the GOP has invested in the failure of the ACA (it's success ensures this Presidents legacy and the Democratic monopoly on engineering positive change in America) made single payer a non starter and DOA before the end of 2009.

Educating trailer park conservatives without healthcare would go a long way towards effecting change but the reality is there are millions of Americans who would rather declare bankruptcy than have affordable healthcare insurance administered by the government. The irony is many detractors of the ACA are likely on Medicare or they rely on the VA for medical care.
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Old 11-23-2013, 02:52 AM
 
Location: Houston
5,800 posts, read 3,409,713 times
Reputation: 3766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
And millions would hope so.
Fixed that for you.
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Old 11-23-2013, 06:28 AM
 
7,788 posts, read 8,138,924 times
Reputation: 4720
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwmdk View Post
Just as food, housing, clothing... all miserable failures. Right?
Apples and oranges. Sure you have an idea of the cost of American health care including pharmaceuticals? Staggeringly out of control. Food, clothing is not. One could argue a bit that housing is a wreck considering 22 million (22,000,000) homes are upside down in their value, another rape of the American middle class. But those in your camp think that doing nothing will solve everything when the opposite is true. Doing nothing would have resulted in a new depression, not an opinion but absolute fact.
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Old 11-23-2013, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Calgary, AB
3,401 posts, read 2,184,228 times
Reputation: 1072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vejadu View Post
Only a fool would think putting our healthcare in the hands of the government, an entity that thrives on bureaucracy and inefficiency, is a good idea.
No, it's completely invisible. If I need to see a doctor, I just go. If it is bureaucratic and inefficient, I don't see it. I've had far more grief dealing with private insurers.

Not paying for CEO junkets and marketing bumpf is nice too.
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Old 11-23-2013, 10:49 AM
 
8,483 posts, read 6,633,634 times
Reputation: 1119
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
Right huh? My point was that we do have the money. We have the money to do quite a bit if we shift our priorities.



I'm just not following your point then..... Is it a good thing or bad thing the govt is making money off these investments?
Municipal corps having financial interest in transnationals is a conflict far greater imo than any lobbying interest.
This is also tied in with JPM, GS etc... and too big too fail. One has only to look at the market to see who the players are.

Look at this 1% running the global economy, very familiar govt shareholder owned corps. One need only to delve into the large "institutional" ownership of the markets, as well.
Revealed - the capitalist network that runs the world ...
quote:
"In effect, less than 1 per cent of the companies were able to control 40 per cent of the entire network," says Glattfelder. Most were financial institutions. The top 20 included Barclays Bank, JPMorgan Chase & Co, and The Goldman Sachs Group.


Those jobs that left benefited those investment funds, but changed the standard of living for many. All those derivatives which caused a global implosion are all still there and looks like they will be getting bigger. No mystery as to why.

The other issue is the lack of transparency and that people who are the source of the funding are not receiving the benefits.These returns are largely off budget. Govt uses this scheme and creative accounting to hang on to a great deal, but still comes back begging for more. Even municipal BK's have different definitions for insolvency.
CA CAFR: $600 billion 'pension investment' fund nets just ...
quote:
This means the state retains $600 billion in taxpayer assets for $1 billion in income.

This is the machinery that does the heavy lifting and is responsible for a debt based economy. Municipal corps (govt) invest in keeping everyone in debt. Liabilities are used to acquire wealth. If you are content with the way things are running you may have no issues with this arrangement. That is up to an individual to decide, however, many do not seem aware of what is really occurring. This is clearly intentional, as well.

CAFRs are hiding in plain sight, but I have only heard 2 reps to date mention them. Instead it is all about the budget. Headlines in papers use laughable terms like "rainy day" funds, as well. Have never seen such a fund in any CAFR.

This industry market share increase for "health care" is intended to go the way the housing market and the other consolidations and bubbles have gone.
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Old 11-23-2013, 12:17 PM
 
52,786 posts, read 22,625,338 times
Reputation: 12707
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
A single payer system would, out of the gate, be between 16% and 25% less expensive than our current system. That amounts to a savings of no less than $420 billion dollars a year.

That is how you pay for it.
And you come up with great declaration, how?
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Old 11-23-2013, 12:29 PM
 
Location: South Bay
1,404 posts, read 987,869 times
Reputation: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
I certainly hope so. It is the only solution that will actually save out healthcare system from imploding under its own weight.
I don't understand your logic. Medicaid is a single payer system, and look how bad it is.

It really doesn't matter though. Obamacare has been the biggest boon to Medicaid in history with more than 4-1 opting to sign up to it rather than ACA.
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Old 11-23-2013, 12:33 PM
 
Location: South Bay
1,404 posts, read 987,869 times
Reputation: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
That's all absolutely true, but the power of the corporate media, and the rabid frenzy with which the GOP...
You'll blame anything on the GOP with reckless abandon. It's obvious, that in your mind, the DNC is blameless in everything.

Next month you'll be claiming the GOP is to blame for the horrible ACA roll out, because one of the programmers was found to lean conservative. Useful you are.
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