Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I have to register my car, does that mean the government is coming to take it?
The NRA says keep guns from criminals and the mentally ill, but don't we have to know they have guns in the first place?
Are cars an effective means to defend yourself from any out of control government?
Yes we dont know they have guns, because we understand the trading liberty and freedom for security is not a trade that is worth it..
Fact: You do not need a license to buy a car. You can buy as many as you want and drive them
all you like on your own property without a license.
Fact: Cars are registered because they are (a) a source of tax revenue, (b) the object of fraud in
some transactions, and (b) a high theft object. Thus we ask the government to track these.
Fact: There is no constitutional right to keep and bear automobiles, and thus they are subject to
greater regulation than guns.
Fact: There are more guns in the U.S. than cars (228,000,000 guns according to 1998 FBI stats,
and 207,754,000 automobiles according to 1998 Federal Highway Administration registrations).
Yet you are 31 times more likely to be accidentally killed by a car than a gun according to the
National Safety Council30 . . . despite cars having been registered and licensed for almost 100
years.
Yes we dont know they have guns, because we understand the trading liberty and freedom for security is not a trade that is worth it..
So is that another example of the NRA saying one thing and not meaning it because they oppose the means to make it so (like saying enforce existing laws even though they worked to undermine the ATF and enforcement)? We also make that trade many times in general, and both sides have supported it.
Seeing how most .22 rimfire rifles hold 10 or more rounds, I guess NY is out to get them all.
And here I thought Canada had restrictive firearm policies. At least I can still get a 25 round clip for my Marlin 10/22 and not have to worry about registration (for now). However, that will likely change if the sexually repressed Liberals get back in.
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
-Sigmund Freud, General Introduction to Psychoanalysis (1952)
So is that another example of the NRA saying one thing and not meaning it because they oppose the means to make it so (like saying enforce existing laws even though they worked to undermine the ATF and enforcement)? We also make that trade many times in general, and both sides have supported it.
The NRA never said that, it was Benjamin Franklin who said “Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
Yes the work to stop and end unjust laws that violate a persons 2nd and 4th amendment rights..
And if both sides support something that makes it ok? We like a Constitutional Republic not a mobocracy, popular support means not because our rights and freedoms are not up to popular vote or subject to the opinions of the majority.
The NRA never said that, it was Benjamin Franklin who said “Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
Yes the work to stop and end unjust laws that violate a persons 2nd and 4th amendment rights..
And if both sides support something that makes it ok? We like a Constitutional Republic not a mobocracy, popular support means not because our rights and freedoms are not up to popular vote or subject to the opinions of the majority.
You confused what I was referring to, the first part of my post was in regard to the NRA claiming they desire to keep guns from criminals and the mentally ill.
So is that another example of the NRA saying one thing and not meaning it because they oppose the means to make it so (like saying enforce existing laws even though they worked to undermine the ATF and enforcement)?
How would registering a gun make it possible to know a criminal has a gun? Do you believe that a criminal obtaining a gun (which can only be illegally) will then follow the law to register it? Do you believe illegal gun traffickers for instance "Duanes illegal gun emporium" will inform the registration authorities of sales to his customers?
How will you know any specific individual has a gun? You cannot until you stop them and find one, or you search their place of residence. In both instances if the person stopped, or their residence is searched where a gun is found and that person is already a criminal, you already know that the gun is illegally owned. Therefore having a registry provides no material additional benefits.
A gun registration database only provides information on legal transfers of owned guns and who is the current legal owner. It provides no information that could either increase the likelihood of law enforcement eliminating illegal owned guns, or finding persons who own guns illegally.
Has the NRA undermined enforcement of the law? Please give give citations and point out where the NRA specifically undermines enforcement. Firstly enforcement of removing illegally owned firearms is almost exclusively performed by local law enforcement, so you need to provide citations where the NRA has specifically targeted local enforcement of firearm regulations (as they stand, not additional legislation), secondly as far as BATFE is concerned, well the NRA does a good job of watching the watcher, and we've seen what the results can be with the NSA if there isn't someone doing this. Even that said, then please show where the NRA has specifically targeted BATFE so that it could not perform it's intended role (as it stands, not additional legislation or regulation) without BATFE violating other legally protected rights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grsz11
We also make that trade many times in general, and both sides have supported it.
By that logic, if you've been overcharged $0.25 on your coffee and been OK about it, then when the server asks you for $2000 for your coffee, then you would be OK about paying it. You've made that trade many times in general, and you supported it and I'm sure the server supported it too.
How would registering a gun make it possible to know a criminal has a gun? Do you believe that a criminal obtaining a gun (which can only be illegally) will then follow the law to register it? Do you believe illegal gun traffickers for instance "Duanes illegal gun emporium" will inform the registration authorities of sales to his customers?
How will you know any specific individual has a gun? You cannot until you stop them and find one, or you search their place of residence. In both instances if the person stopped, or their residence is searched where a gun is found and that person is already a criminal, you already know that the gun is illegally owned. Therefore having a registry provides no material additional benefits.
A gun registration database only provides information on legal transfers of owned guns and who is the current legal owner. It provides no information that could either increase the likelihood of la
In this case, the criminal is somebody who legally owns a gun and becomes ineligible later.
You confused what I was referring to, the first part of my post was in regard to the NRA claiming they desire to keep guns from criminals and the mentally ill.
Yes they do, but at a point it because harmful to liberty and the civil rights of law abiding citizens..The will always find a way to get them, understand and accept this fact...
In this case, the criminal is somebody who legally owns a gun and becomes ineligible later.
And if a suspect is investigated by the police, and they discover firearms, then they also know that that suspect (who is now a convict) has firearms.
Without a registry, you could make it a requirement that all parolee's must submit to monthly random home searches for illegal items (including guns) for a period, and a random search every once every 5 years afterwards without affecting the law abiding, or requiring them to register their guns. If you desired.
And if a suspect is investigated by the police, and they discover firearms, then they also know that that suspect (who is now a convict) has firearms.
Without a registry, you could make it a requirement that all parolee's must submit to monthly random home searches for illegal items (including guns) for a period, and a random search every once every 5 years afterwards without affecting the law abiding, or requiring them to register their guns. If you desired.
What about those who are found to be mentally ill? They don't give up rights like convicts.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
