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Jacking the prices through taxation has reduced cigarette use, but something is needed to get the hard core abusers and a jail term and fines may be the answer. Cigarettes smokers cost all of us billions in higher health care costs so we all have a stake in stopping them.
So does a lack of exercise. Should everyone be forced to wear a heart rate monitor that uploads data to Big Brother every day to ensure that some arbitrary heart rate is maintained for X minutes every day?
Alcohol abuse costs billions as well, not just from drunk drivers (already illegal) but from liver damage in adults, fetal alcohol syndrome, lost income and so on. Should alcohol also be banned (again, because it worked so well the first time)?
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Originally Posted by Ponderosa
I've seen some pretty persuasive numbers that suggest that smokers actually save medical costs mainly because they die on average 10 years younger than non-smokers. So they cost less for medicare and social security and the myriad of other services the very old require. My concern is in helping people who are addicted to lead healthier, longer lives and with more money in their pockets from savings on cigarettes to enjoy some of the finer things. Smokers like to talk about choice, but they are simply addicts who have no control over their choices at all.
So why bother making it illegal if they cost society less? Which is it, they cost too much or they cost less? Who cares if they have more or less money in their own pockets? It isn't your, or governments, responsibility to manage their cash flow.
You want to jail them because you care about them? How touching
You and people of your mindset are the true threat of cancer upon society, rather than tobacco. And, just to state facts ... there is not one clinical study that has ever proven a causative link between tobacco and ANY DISEASE. All such claims are false, and are based on speculation and dubious correlations. That is fact, in spite of the propaganda to the contrary.
Of course, this might explain the rather unexpected and difficult to explain massive increase in COPD, and no positive change in lung cancer rates seen, even though smoking has declined significantly. Were smoking the major cause of lung cancer as has been the mantra of these carnival barkers for 3+ decades, we'd have seen a correlating decline in both cancer and respiratory disease ... yet we haven't.
Furthermore, we have already plenty of data showing the great harm caused by government imposing "prohibition" on substances. The prohibition of alcohol was a disastrous failure, unless of course you think organized crime and black markets and unbridled violence associated somehow provides societal benefits?
And finally, and no less important is the fundamental issue that what I choose to do is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS ... my decision, not yours.
IMO, these moves are by nanny-state, feel-good, tax-grabbers (sin tax, research), and are an abuse of individual liberty.
Sorry, but LIBERTY is not commonly risk-free.
If nicotine is deemed beneficial to any of the following - BIG PHARMA will surely COST MORE than Marlboro or Winston!
(I know, I know, they will eliminate the 'evil' smoke.... and so, it will COST YOU one way or the other! )
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Over the past decade, new research has taught us more about how nicotine affects the brain and the body. Some of it is good news.... for example,
-a lower incidence of Alzheimer's disease in smokers.
-A 1982 study revealed that patients with ulcerative colitis had fewer flare-ups when taking nicotine.
-In 2000, a study performed at Stanford revealed surprising results about nicotine's effects on blood vessels.... the study showed that nicotine actually boosts the growth of new blood vessels. The discovery may lead to new treatments for diabetes.
-Researchers from the Scripps Research Institute published a study in 2002 that revealed a connection between nornicotine -- a chemical found in tobacco and also created when the body breaks down nicotine -- and a reduction of Alzheimer's symptoms.
-In 2006, Duke scientists found that people with depression who were treated with nicotine patches reported a decrease in their depressive feelings.... the research also showed a direct link between nicotine and an increase in the release of dopamine and serotonin, two vital neurotransmitters.
While no nicotine-derived drugs are available yet, many are in the development or testing phases. The variety of conditions being studied reflects the excitement felt in the scientific community for the potential of nicotine: anxiety, depression, Alzheimer's, Tourette Syndrome, ADHD, Parkinson's disease, diabetes and schizophrenia.
Jacking the prices through taxation has reduced cigarette use, but something is needed to get the hard core abusers and a jail term and fines may be the answer. Cigarettes smokers cost all of us billions in higher health care costs so we all have a stake in stopping them.
This poster claimed that a man at a football game should have been shot by security for lighting up in the stands, they also claimed that "sometimes smokers need killin" in another thread
IMO, these moves are by nanny-state, feel-good, tax-grabbers (sin tax, research), and are an abuse of individual liberty.
Sorry, but LIBERTY is not commonly risk-free.
If nicotine is deemed beneficial to any of the following - BIG PHARMA will surely COST MORE than Marlboro or Winston!
(I know, I know, they will eliminate the 'evil' smoke.... and so, it will COST YOU one way or the other! )
--------------------------
Over the past decade, new research has taught us more about how nicotine affects the brain and the body. Some of it is good news.... for example,
-a lower incidence of Alzheimer's disease in smokers.
-A 1982 study revealed that patients with ulcerative colitis had fewer flare-ups when taking nicotine.
-In 2000, a study performed at Stanford revealed surprising results about nicotine's effects on blood vessels.... the study showed that nicotine actually boosts the growth of new blood vessels. The discovery may lead to new treatments for diabetes.
-Researchers from the Scripps Research Institute published a study in 2002 that revealed a connection between nornicotine -- a chemical found in tobacco and also created when the body breaks down nicotine -- and a reduction of Alzheimer's symptoms.
-In 2006, Duke scientists found that people with depression who were treated with nicotine patches reported a decrease in their depressive feelings.... the research also showed a direct link between nicotine and an increase in the release of dopamine and serotonin, two vital neurotransmitters.
While no nicotine-derived drugs are available yet, many are in the development or testing phases. The variety of conditions being studied reflects the excitement felt in the scientific community for the potential of nicotine: anxiety, depression, Alzheimer's, Tourette Syndrome, ADHD, Parkinson's disease, diabetes and schizophrenia.
You know that to the Nazi Nannies, that is just a bunch of conspiracy theory nonsense.
The reality is, they don't care whether it's good or bad (proven by the previous poster who simply wants to put people in jail because he cares about their heallh so much) liberal nazis love to ban things ... they are disturbed little cretins who who enjoy imposing tyranical powers over others. That's what thrills them. They are a vile scurge that the rest of us must shout down, ridicule, and do whatever it takes to chase them back under the rocks from wince they slithered.
Again, I have to say, IF tobacco use is SO very bad for society, isn't it time that SOMEBODY stepped up and tried to pass a law making the growing, possession, sale, and use of any and all tobacco products ILLEGAL, and eliminating the industry entirely?
LOLOLOL..... you still believe this has something to do with "health"... it doesn't. Not in the least. That is the disguise that Government wears when it deals with the smoking issue. "it's for the children"...."it's for healthcare costs"..."it's for the health of society"
Anyone who falls for that nonsense is extremely naïve to say the least and that is putting it nicely. Truth is, the government or the healthcare industry couldn't care less about your health and the LAST thing they want is for you to quit smoking. The LAST thing they want is to eliminate the industry altogether.
A wise man once told me that if you want to get to the bottom of any situation, just follow the money, and you'll get your answer. So, f you want to know what the anti-smoking movement is really all about, follow the money. If they were to ban smoking altogether, government would lose millions in tax revenue. Pharmacutical companies would lose millions in revenue. Local government would lose hundreds of thousands in revenue from fines from people violating indoor smoking bans..... etc etc.
Don't be a sheep that gets lead to slaughter. Sometimes, you have to read in between the lines to get the real story.
LOLOLOL..... you still believe this has something to do with "health"... it doesn't. Not in the least. That is the disguise that Government wears when it deals with the smoking issue. "it's for the children"...."it's for healthcare costs"..."it's for the health of society"
Anyone who falls for that nonsense is extremely naïve to say the least and that is putting it nicely. Truth is, the government or the healthcare industry couldn't care less about your health and the LAST thing they want is for you to quit smoking. The LAST thing they want is to eliminate the industry altogether.
A wise man once told me that if you want to get to the bottom of any situation, just follow the money, and you'll get your answer. So, f you want to know what the anti-smoking movement is really all about, follow the money. If they were to ban smoking altogether, government would lose millions in tax revenue. Pharmacutical companies would lose millions in revenue. Local government would lose hundreds of thousands in revenue from fines from people violating indoor smoking bans..... etc etc.
Don't be a sheep that gets lead to slaughter. Sometimes, you have to read in between the lines to get the real story.
To be honest, I believe they would like to ban tobacco ... government and the pharmacuetical industry. #1) pharma makes a killing on those patches and pills. Notice how the cost of those products are roughly the same as cigarettes. #2) government doesn't need our tax dollars (this a very common misperception). Ask yourself a simple question ... if they can print as much money as they care to, why would they neef yours? The answer is they don't need it. What taxes are is a mechanism of control, not a source of revenue ... they own the printing presses!!!
A ban on tobacco would generate a new world of control, including the inevitable black market that would spring up like weeds everywhere. And who do you think would control the tobacco black market? It would be our favorite uncle named Sam, who controls the opium-heroin worldwide market now, with US troops guarding the poppy fields in afghanistan.
Imagine the profits of law enforcement on one side, and the tidy revenue stream created by aa pound of tobacco having a street value of $1,200, rather than $8 like it is now? Trust me, this is and has been a several decade effort to brainwash the public into buying in and support a tobacco ban.
Why do you think the federal government thumbs it's nose at states who legalize marijuana, insisting on shutting down state approved medical marijuana? BECAUSE THEY RUN THE GOD DAMNED BLACK MARKET ON WEED, JUST LIKE THEY DO ON HEROIN.
To most people the truth is stranger than fiction ... but when you discover the real truth, some things that used to not make sense, all of a sudden do.
Why are we still in Afghanistan, with talk of needing to remain there another 10 years? Supposedly, we went in to get that boogie man, Bin Laden. He's dead. Yet we need to stay 10 more years? It was a bull **-* story from the start .. we had to go in to save the opium from the Taliban that had already destroyed 80% of the production.
Why do you suppose Bush senior has the nick name "Poppy Bush"? Hint ... it ain't because he's George Jr. Daddy.
If their time wasn't allowed to be wasted on stupid crap like this, maybe they'd have time to read things like the ACA instead of waiting to have it passed so they could see what is in it.
You do realize this is a State Government, not federal?
To add to the previous post ... there is a method to the madness, as there always is.
Not that long ago, 30-40% or more of the US population used tobacco products. No way could the government sell a ban on something that almost half the nation dif. So they started with the anti-tobacco propaganda ... slowly indoctrinating and brainwashing the public with the contrived dangers of smoking. That wasn't working very well, so they came up with the assinine garbage about the danger of 2nd hand smoke, to convince the non-smokers to join in the anti tobacco crusade. So that led to bans on smoking in the workplace, then in public venues and and now even in multi unit dwellings. They managed to enlist the help of non smokers to persecute and ridicule smokers into quitting.
Of course they knew that there would be 10, 15, maybe 20% that would reject the pressure and the propaganda, and continue to smoke. And this is exactly what was anticipated. The government doesn't want EVERYONE to quit ... who then could they control, and who would be left to be the customers for the black market? You have to have customers to have a black market. You just can't have half the population getting riled up. 10% is is all you need to make more money at illegal prices than you did when 40% smoked at legal prices.
It's diabolical in it's simplicity and effectiveness.
You don't need to brainwash people about the dangers of smoking, you just need to be honest and educate them. The effects of tobacco smoke on the human body is very damaging.
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