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As we speak, Obama is talking about the minimum wage. Do you even know why we have one? It is because during the Great Depression, those who had businesses, large and small, were enticing people to work for food. That's right. No wage, just a bowl of soup. IF the national minimum wage was $0. The actual minimum wage would not be zero. Only a fool would argue that. Are you a fool? Of course it wouldn't be zero. Maybe it would be $3.00/hr. Would you work for that? No? Why not? Where are you going to go that pays more? You think you are that good that you could go somewhere else and get more? Ok. Good luck with that. After a few months you would come crawling, literally, and take that $3.00/hr. And that is the problem. It would destroy the country. Smarter people than you run this country and they won't let that happen. Unfortunately there is a lot of space between the $3.00/hr that a free market minimum wage might fall to and the $20.00/hr that more accurately reflects what the average person needs to exist... not live it up or thrive, but simply exist... in most areas of the United States. Congress wants to keep the country from becoming a failed state but they are lobbied heavily by business interests. I'm sure it's quite a dance. Them I get. What is your excuse for being so shockingly unempathic about your fellow U.S. citizens? Reality check. They aren't all Mexican or Guatemalan illeg-al immigrants. Some of them are your neighbors. Ex software engineers now working for Target or Home Depot. Don't you want them to get more than $7.00/hr?? Do you really think the Big Box Retailers of America cannot pay workers double what they earn now? Well, I suppose they can't do that AND pay the CEO 22 million dollars a year... maybe they can but the shareholders might raise a ruckus... ahhh ... yeah... but... but... did you know that a planets worth of wealth is stashed in the Caymans and other tax havens... doing nothing! Cancer is killing an 1/8 of the population of the civilized world and a planets worth of wealth is just idling in limbo because rich people have so much money they don't even know what to do with it. And that's ok with you.
H
You do realize that many countries do not have any minimum wage, don't you? Countries such as Germany, Italy, Sweden etc.
You do realize that many countries do not have any minimum wage, don't you? Countries such as Germany, Italy, Sweden etc.
Obviously they don't need one. Duh... there wouldn't be a minimum wage in this country either but for the fact that people took advantage of a situation... I get that you think its purely government meddling for no good reason but ... come on... does that pass the smell test? The de facto minimum wage in Germany (and Australia) is $20.00/hr. imagine that. If you are doing any kind of menial work in Germany you get $20.00/hr. sure you pay 40% taxes on it but you do that here too! At least for your taxes in the EU you don't have to worry if you have a toothache. Free. Absolutely free. Here its a minimum of $150.00 and that's for an extraction. No one is going to try and save the tooth of a low wage worker anywhere in the U.S. The minimum wage in the U.S. needs to be raised for the exact same reasons that it needed to be enacted in the first place: there is no other force with the power to make American employers do the right thing. They clearly don't have morality or empathy or anything called a conscience. The notion that the minimum wage workforce is free to work elsewhere is just so much @#%#.
As we speak, Obama is talking about the minimum wage. Do you even know why we have one? It is because during the Great Depression, those who had businesses, large and small, were enticing people to work for food. That's right. No wage, just a bowl of soup.
And? Is that supposed to shock me into wanting McDonalds to pay people $15 an hour to punch buttons on a cash register? Do you think the employers were making out like bandits at the time? If their employees were working for no wages, then where were their customers getting the money to buy their goods and services? People were working for food because that's what the market could bear at the time. A minimum wage doesn't fix a depression.
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IF the national minimum wage was $0. The actual minimum wage would not be zero. Only a fool would argue that. Are you a fool? Of course it wouldn't be zero. Maybe it would be $3.00/hr. Would you work for that? No? Why not? Where are you going to go that pays more? You think you are that good that you could go somewhere else and get more? Ok. Good luck with that. After a few months you would come crawling, literally, and take that $3.00/hr.
And if $3/hr was an acceptable wage, then $3/hr would buy the things I needed. You act like wages are completely divorced from the rest of the economy. They aren't. Labor is a market just like everything else is a market. If labor is making $3/hr then the price of food, clothing, gasoline, and other necessities will adjust downward to accomodate that.
Use your same logic on the other side of the equation. If people are making $3/hr how many $100 pairs of Nike sneakers do think are going to get sold? Is the owner of the shoe store going to sit there making no money at all or is he going to lower prices to a point where customers can afford to buy his product?
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And that is the problem. It would destroy the country.
If that's the case then how did the people survive for over three centuries without a minimum wage? The minimum wage wasn't established until 1938. The first permanent settlement that eventually became the United States was established in 1607. Your claim that lack of a minimum wage would destroy the nation doesn't pass the common sense test.
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Smarter people than you run this country and they won't let that happen.
You mean the same smart people who caused the Great Depression in the first place? The same smart people who put out billions in quantitative easing and call it a "recovery"?
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Unfortunately there is a lot of space between the $3.00/hr that a free market minimum wage might fall to and the $20.00/hr that more accurately reflects what the average person needs to exist... not live it up or thrive, but simply exist... in most areas of the United States.
Yes there is a lot of space between minimum wage and the wage that the average person needs to exist. There's a good reason for that: the average person isn't meant to be working a minimum wage job.
Minimum wage jobs are no-skill jobs. The country offers grants, scholarships, and guaranteed student loans precisely so that people can gain skills and get better jobs.
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Congress wants to keep the country from becoming a failed state but they are lobbied heavily by business interests. I'm sure it's quite a dance. Them I get. What is your excuse for being so shockingly unempathic about your fellow U.S. citizens?
What's your excuse for being so shockingly ignorant of the simple fact that minimum wage is meant as an entry level position for teenagers to get some work experience? Minimum wage jobs aren't meant to be lifelong careers. At some point between 16 and 64 you ought to learn to do something besides punch the "cheeseburger" button on the cash register.
And speaking of empathy, where's yours? Where is your concern for your fellow citizen to provide an environment that encourages people to grow and work hard and better themselves instead of working at McDonalds for decades? Where is your concern for not making it impossible for small business owners, who provide 60% of the jobs in this country, to afford to hire staff?
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Reality check. They aren't all Mexican or Guatemalan illeg-al immigrants. Some of them are your neighbors. Ex software engineers now working for Target or Home Depot. Don't you want them to get more than $7.00/hr??
Yes, I do. That's why I vote Republican. The party that doesn't stifle economic growth with restrictive regulations, punishing taxes, and programs that instill a sense of helpless dependency in people.
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Do you really think the Big Box Retailers of America cannot pay workers double what they earn now? Well, I suppose they can't do that AND pay the CEO 22 million dollars a year... maybe they can but the shareholders might raise a ruckus... ahhh ... yeah... but... but... did you know that a planets worth of wealth is stashed in the Caymans and other tax havens... doing nothing!
So what? If you didn't earn the money it's not up to you to decide how it gets spent. If you want people to earn $20/hr then go start a business and pay all your employees $20/hr. Nobody is stopping you. And nobody is forcing people to work at Target for their entire lives. When we don't have Democrats in office more concerned with socialist style ideology and campaign contributions from special interest groups than the health of the American economy, our unemployment rate hovers around 5% and we have a good degree of upward mobility.
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Cancer is killing an 1/8 of the population of the civilized world and a planets worth of wealth is just idling in limbo because rich people have so much money they don't even know what to do with it. And that's ok with you.
Yes, it is. If rich people want to donate to cancer research, they are free to do so. If not, well it's their money. Not mine. Not yours. They get to decide what to do with it, not you.
And? Is that supposed to shock me into wanting McDonalds to pay people $15 an hour to punch buttons on a cash register? Do you think the employers were making out like bandits at the time?
Yes. Then as now, when the financial meltdown hit, it was the banks at the epicenter. Everyone else was simply capitalizing on the human wreckage. Many people still had money to buy things, and they did. The people who made them used their leverage over their workforce to force them to work for food, like animals. They would do it today. In a New York minute.
And if $3/hr was an acceptable wage, then $3/hr would buy the things I needed. You act like wages are completely divorced from the rest of the economy. They aren't. Labor is a market just like everything else is a market. If labor is making $3/hr then the price of food, clothing, gasoline, and other necessities will adjust downward to accomodate that.
Really? You see evidence of this where? Nothing a person wears, eats or drives for that matter costs anything like what it did a decade ago. The minimum wage has scarcely budged in that time.
Use your same logic on the other side of the equation. If people are making $3/hr how many $100 pairs of Nike sneakers do think are going to get sold? Is the owner of the shoe store going to sit there making no money at all or is he going to lower prices to a point where customers can afford to buy his product?
The shoe store is part of a franchise operation that is traded publicly. Investors put more cash into anything called a Fortune 500 than any amount of actual sales do. McDonald's doesn't exist to sell hamburgers anymore. They exist to be McDonald's and court investor capital.
Yes there is a lot of space between minimum wage and the wage that the average person needs to exist. There's a good reason for that: the average person isn't meant to be working a minimum wage job.
Minimum wage jobs are no-skill jobs. The country offers grants, scholarships, and guaranteed student loans precisely so that people can gain skills and get better jobs.
What's your excuse for being so shockingly ignorant of the simple fact that minimum wage is meant as an entry level position for teenagers to get some work experience? Minimum wage jobs aren't meant to be lifelong careers. At some point between 16 and 64 you ought to learn to do something besides punch the "cheeseburger" button on the cash register.
The average IQ of Americans is 100. Someone with a 125 - 135 IQ is considered 'bright'. My IQ is over 175. I've worked minimum wage jobs for reasons that would completely escape a dyed in the wool Conservative such as yourself. I was born and raised in NYC. I didn't know that there were such things as career waitresses, fast food workers, dishwashers, janitors... ... I live in a semi-rural area now. I know what the average atainment is. Don't insult my intelligence by telling me that all Americans are supposed to become Software Engineers. Just don't. And don't try to argue that because someone cannot become a Software Engineer that they should get paid a wage that remains static even while everything they need in life costs more, more and more... and more.
And speaking of empathy, where's yours? Where is your concern for your fellow citizen to provide an environment that encourages people to grow and work hard and better themselves instead of working at McDonalds for decades? Where is your concern for not making it impossible for small business owners, who provide 60% of the jobs in this country, to afford to hire staff?
McDonalds is the most successful franchise operation ever. McDonalds CEO is the lowest paid CEO on the Fortune 500. One of only four black CEO's in existence. I'd say McD's has plenty of money to pay decent wages to, yes, career employee's who make it possible for McDonalds to claim the top tier spot in the rankings of fast food franchise operations decade after decade. If not them, who? The small shops usually pay MORE than the big dogs and they remain in business or not. The reasons they fail have little to do with their payroll. Float that past someone with no clue.
Yes, it is. If rich people want to donate to cancer research, they are free to do so. If not, well it's their money. Not mine. Not yours. They get to decide what to do with it, not you.
Bullcrap. There is such a thing as 'depraved indifference'. Unless you are an heir, your success depended on your workers. Your continued existence depends on the continued health of the population. After witnessing Steve Job's demise, some wealthy people are indeed giving large sums of cash to various health research programs. Not enough of them, of course.
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McDonalds is the most successful franchise operation ever. McDonalds CEO is the lowest paid CEO on the Fortune 500. One of only four black CEO's in existence. I'd say McD's has plenty of money to pay decent wages to, yes, career employee's who make it possible for McDonalds to claim the top tier spot in the rankings of fast food franchise operations decade after decade. If not them, who? The small shops usually pay MORE than the big dogs and they remain in business or not. The reasons they fail have little to do with their payroll. Float that past someone with no clue.
H
Well for starters McDonalds is not like Walmart.
Each store is a franchise, independently owned.
Each store owner sends a percentage to corp HQ.
It's up to each store owner how to set up his payroll.
Profit margin is around 4%.
Bump salaries by $6/hour and they'd have to fire people.
$6/hour more is not enough to get them off the means tested programs.
They would lose more in benefits than that $6/hour can provide.
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