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However, as I said, Christians celebrate the birth of Christ. It matters not that He wasn't born in December. Christ*mas is a celebration of Christ. Without that, it's just another hoot-and-hollering, beer slugging, "holiday", no different than a New Year's celebration.
I always thought most Americans were in favor of (if not devoted to) upholding our Constitution. I am utterly amazed when people are in favor of ignoring or abolishing part of it because it affects THEIR religion.
I am equally amazed when I read that some people believe that being exposed to Christian symbols automatically makes you a moral/ethical/good person while not being a Christian, apparently, makes you a depraved soul fighting for the forces of evil.
What an incredibly sad statement.
"I always thought most Americans were in favor of (if not devoted to) upholding our Constitution."
Really?
What would make you think that?
"I am utterly amazed when people are in favor of ignoring or abolishing part of it because it affects THEIR religion."
For example...
"I am equally amazed when I read that some people believe that being exposed to Christian symbols automatically makes you a moral/ethical/good person while not being a Christian, apparently, makes you a depraved soul fighting for the forces of evil."
You are correct. Many Christians don't know this, many were brought up with Christmas as a family tradition, and continue it because of the warm feelings, the memories and the joy they have with it. However, they do celebrate the birth of Christ at this time and it is very meaningful spiritually. The rest of the trappings that come with it are the memories they've preserved. They could shed the trappings -- and some do progress to the point where they actually come to realize that the tree is a pagan leftover hanging around for years. It's a difficult thing to shed, though, just as Halloween and trick-or-treating is difficult to shed, just because all the kids in the neighborhood, school, etc. are "into it", and parents might feel "what's the harm" if we don't go overboard... That leaves us with one foot in the world, in the 'muck of secularism', so to speak, and we just can't seem to pull it out.
However, as I said, Christians celebrate the birth of Christ. It matters not that He wasn't born in December. Christ*mas is a celebration of Christ. Without that, it's just another hoot-and-hollering, beer slugging, "holiday", no different than a New Year's celebration.
The "war on Christmas" is, in reality, a "war on Christ"...if we are honest about it.
Total stuff and nonsense! There is nothing that you and your family did at Christmas when you were a child that you cannot do today.
The whole 'war on Christmas' brouhaha is a contrived manipulation, devised by right wing leaders in an effort to keep their low-information, devoid of critical thinking skills followers riled up and therefore more easily led in the direction to which those leaders want them to go. And the right wing sheeple willingly and unthinkingly fall for it every year.
History shows that December 25 was popularized as the date for Christmas, not because Jesus was born on that day, but because it was already popular in pagan religious celebrations as the birthday of the sun (winter solstice).
Careful analysis of Scripture, however, clearly indicates that December 25 couldn't be the date for Jesus's birth. Here are two primary reasons: First, we know that shepherds were in the fields watching their flocks at the time of Jesus' birth (Luke 2:7-8). Shepherds were not in the fields during December. According to Luke's account Jesus may have been born in summer or early fall.
Jesus was not born during the winter solstice. The power structure created Christmas to ensure that people would continue to celebrate paganism which corresponds perfectly with the winter solstice rituals. Interestingly, the pagans also gave gifts during the solstice. This corresponds perfectly with Christians, so in essence, "Christmas" is nothing more than a pagan celebration. This is why atheists and even satanists have no problems partaking in the "Christmas" celebrations. They understand fully well, the real origin and meaning of Christmas.
OK, for the "Nth" time-I do not believe there is a war on Christmas. However, I do believe there are a lot of non-Christians out there who don't know what they're talking about.
The solstice is not December 25. This year, it is December 21. Some years it's Dec. 22. Then the length of days stays about the same, within minutes, until December 25, when it starts to lengthen again. According to a friend of mine (atheist) that is why Dec. 25 was chosen (the days start to get longer). http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/...-solstice.html
According to some people who actually live in Israel, sometimes it IS warm enough for the shepherds to be out with their sheep on December 25. There is no way to know when exactly Jesus was born as people didn't note birth dates at the time. I'd like to know what in Luke indicates that Jesus was born in summer or fall.
OK, for the "Nth" time-I do not believe there is a war on Christmas. However, I do believe there are a lot of non-Christians out there who don't know what they're talking about.
The solstice is not December 25. This year, it is December 21. Some years it's Dec. 22. Then the length of days stays about the same, within minutes, until December 25, when it starts to lengthen again. According to a friend of mine (atheist) that is why Dec. 25 was chosen (the days start to get longer). Winter Solstice
According to some people who actually live in Israel, sometimes it IS warm enough for the shepherds to be out with their sheep on December 25. There is no way to know when exactly Jesus was born as people didn't note birth dates at the time. I'd like to know what in Luke indicates that Jesus was born in summer or fall.
Saint Luke tells us that shepherds were “abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flocks by night” – shepherds guarded their flocks day and night only at lambing time, in the spring; in winter, the animals were kept in corrals, unwatched.
So, no matter the weather, shepherds would not keep "watch over their flocks by night" in December, which means that the Biblical Jesus was not born in December.
OK, for the "Nth" time-I do not believe there is a war on Christmas. However, I do believe there are a lot of non-Christians out there who don't know what they're talking about. The solstice is not December 25. This year, it is December 21. Some years it's Dec. 22. Then the length of days stays about the same, within minutes, until December 25, when it starts to lengthen again. According to a friend of mine (atheist) that is why Dec. 25 was chosen (the days start to get longer). Winter Solstice
The tradition of "Christmas" or December 25th as the birth of Jesus Christ, the main figure of the New Testament who is believed by nearly two billion Christians worldwide to have been God in the flesh come to save mankind from its sins, is traceable to the late second to third century AD/CE. During that time, the Church father Cyprian (d. 258) remarked (De pasch. Comp., xix): "O, how wonderfully acted Providence that on that day on which that Sun was born...Christ should be born." In other words, his birth was being observed at the winter solstice. What is seldom known, however, is that prior to that time, Jesus's birth was placed on a variety of days, indicating its non-historicity:
January 5th, January 6th, March 25th, March 28th, April 19th, April 20th, May 20th, August 21st, November 17th and November 19th.
December 25th as Christ's birthday makes its way into a "calendar" or chronology created in 354 AD/CE called the Calendar of Filocalus or Philocalian Calendar. In addition to listing the 25th of December as the Natalis Invicti, which means "Birth of the Unconquered (Sun)," the Calendar also names the day as that of natus Christus in Betleem Iudeae: "Birth of Christ in Bethlehem Judea." Hence, we can see that people of the fourth century were clearly aware of the association, if not identification, of Christ with the sun, as they had been in Cyprian's time and earlier, since Jesus is claimed to be the "Sun of Righteousness" in the Old Testament book of Malachi (4:2).
Quote:
World Book Encyclopedia, vol.3, p. 408, 1986 ed., World Book Inc., Chicago, IL
The winter-solstice celebrations were so important that at times they exceeded the one or two days of the actual solstice in the Gregorian calendar, i.e., December 21st or 22nd. Solstice celebrations therefore do not necessarily fall on the traditional time of the solstice but may occur up to several days before or after, such as is exemplified by the Roman celebration of Saturnalia, which began on December 17th and ended on the 23rd.
Hence, a "winter solstice" birth as asserted for a number of gods would not necessarily be celebrated on those exact days or even on the more commonly accepted date of December 25th, which signifies the end of a three-day period of the solstice—meaning "sun stands still"—as perceived in ancient times. In this regard, the winter-solstice birthday of the Greek sun and wine god Dionysus was originally recognized in early January but was eventually placed on December 25th, as related by the ancient Latin writer Macrobius (4th cent. ad/ce). Regardless, the effect is the same: The winter sun god is born around this time, when the day begins to become longer than the night.
Quote:
Katiana:
According to some people who actually live in Israel, sometimes it IS warm enough for the shepherds to be out with their sheep on December 25. There is no way to know when exactly Jesus was born as people didn't note birth dates at the time. I'd like to know what in Luke indicates that Jesus was born in summer or fall.
Say whatever you wish, but shepherds would not be out in the dead of winter with a flock of sheep.
First, we know that shepherds were in the fields watching their flocks at the time of Jesus' birth (Luke 2:7-8). Shepherds were not in the fields during December. According to Celebrations: The Complete Book of American Holidays , Luke's account "suggests that Jesus may have been born in summer or early fall. Since December is cold and rainy in Judea, it is likely the shepherds would have sought shelter for their flocks at night" (p. 309).
Similarly, The Interpreter's One-Volume Commentary says this passage argues "against the birth of Jesus occurring on Dec. 25 since the weather would not have permitted" shepherds watching over their flocks in the fields at night.
Second, Jesus' parents came to Bethlehem to register in a Roman census (Luke 2:1-4). Such censuses were not taken in winter, when temperatures often dropped below freezing and roads were in poor condition. Taking a census under such conditions would have been self-defeating.
Given the difficulties and the desire to bring pagans into Christianity, "the important fact then which I have asked you to get clearly into your head is that the fixing of the date as December 25th was a compromise with paganism" (William Walsh, The Story of Santa Klaus , 1970, p. 62).
I know that Jesus was not born on December 25th. It is well documented. Now, refute the verse from the bible which specifically tells those who believe in God, not to take trees from the forest and decorate them in their homes.
Jeremiah 10:1-25
Quote:
Hear the word that the Lord speaks to you, O house of Israel. Thus says the Lord: “Learn not the way of the nations, nor be dismayed at the signs of the heavens because the nations are dismayed at them, for the customs of the peoples are vanity. A tree from the forest is cut down and worked with an axe by the hands of a craftsman. They decorate it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so that it cannot move. Their idols are like scarecrows in a cucumber field, and they cannot speak; they have to be carried, for they cannot walk. Do not be afraid of them, for they cannot do evil, neither is it in them to do good.”
Quote:
Deuteronomy 12:29-32
“When the Lord your God cuts off before you the nations whom you go in to dispossess, and you dispossess them and dwell in their land, take care that you be not ensnared to follow them, after they have been destroyed before you, and that you do not inquire about their gods, saying, ‘How did these nations serve their gods?—that I also may do the same.’ You shall not worship the Lord your God in that way, for every abominable thing that the Lord hates they have done for their gods, for they even burn their sons and their daughters in the fire to their gods. “Everything that I command you, you shall be careful to do. You shall not add to it or take from it.
Christmas = Christ MASS
The impact of this fact is horrifying and shocking; when the millions of people are saying, "Merry Christmas", they are literally saying "Merry death of Christ!" Furthermore, when the fat man in the red suit laughs boisterously and says, "Ho ho ho, Merry Christmas", he is mocking Jesus.
Many are too foolish to understand the truth, because it's far too easy to follow the trend, instead of conducting your own research on this topic.
Christmas is nothing more than a pagan holiday.
Last edited by Claire_Dreams; 12-08-2013 at 03:29 PM..
According to Snopes: So, no matter the weather, shepherds would not keep "watch over their flocks by night" in December, which means that the Biblical Jesus was not born in December.
This is one of those times when Snopes got it wrong.
Was Jesus born in winter? | Ferrell's Travel Blog
**The American Colony and Eric Matson Collection of photos includes some photos of shepherds with their flocks in the Bethlehem area on Christmas day. . . .I am not saying that Jesus was born in December. Only that the common misunderstanding about Bethlehem winters is based on our lack of knowledge about the local terrain.**
As anyone who actually reads my posts would know, I'm not digging in my heels on this December 25 thing, just saying it was possible.
The tradition of "Christmas" or December 25th as the birth of Jesus Christ, the main figure of the New Testament who is believed by nearly two billion Christians worldwide to have been God in the flesh come to save mankind from its sins, is traceable to the late second to third century AD/CE. During that time, the Church father Cyprian (d. 258) remarked (De pasch. Comp., xix): "O, how wonderfully acted Providence that on that day on which that Sun was born...Christ should be born." In other words, his birth was being observed at the winter solstice. What is seldom known, however, is that prior to that time, Jesus's birth was placed on a variety of days, indicating its non-historicity:
January 5th, January 6th, March 25th, March 28th, April 19th, April 20th, May 20th, August 21st, November 17th and November 19th.
December 25th as Christ's birthday makes its way into a "calendar" or chronology created in 354 AD/CE called the Calendar of Filocalus or Philocalian Calendar. In addition to listing the 25th of December as the Natalis Invicti, which means "Birth of the Unconquered (Sun)," the Calendar also names the day as that of natus Christus in Betleem Iudeae: "Birth of Christ in Bethlehem Judea." Hence, we can see that people of the fourth century were clearly aware of the association, if not identification, of Christ with the sun, as they had been in Cyprian's time and earlier, since Jesus is claimed to be the "Sun of Righteousness" in the Old Testament book of Malachi (4:2).
Say whatever you wish, but shepherds would not be out in the dead of winter with a flock of sheep.
First, we know that shepherds were in the fields watching their flocks at the time of Jesus' birth (Luke 2:7-8). Shepherds were not in the fields during December. According to Celebrations: The Complete Book of American Holidays , Luke's account "suggests that Jesus may have been born in summer or early fall. Since December is cold and rainy in Judea, it is likely the shepherds would have sought shelter for their flocks at night" (p. 309).
Similarly, The Interpreter's One-Volume Commentary says this passage argues "against the birth of Jesus occurring on Dec. 25 since the weather would not have permitted" shepherds watching over their flocks in the fields at night.
Second, Jesus' parents came to Bethlehem to register in a Roman census (Luke 2:1-4). Such censuses were not taken in winter, when temperatures often dropped below freezing and roads were in poor condition. Taking a census under such conditions would have been self-defeating.
Given the difficulties and the desire to bring pagans into Christianity, "the important fact then which I have asked you to get clearly into your head is that the fixing of the date as December 25th was a compromise with paganism" (William Walsh, The Story of Santa Klaus , 1970, p. 62).
I know that Jesus was not born on December 25th. It is well documented. Now, refute the verse from the bible which specifically tells those who believe in God, not to take trees from the forest and decorate them in their homes.
Jeremiah 10:1-25
Christmas = Christ MASS
The impact of this fact is horrifying and shocking; when the millions of people are saying, "Merry Christmas", they are literally saying "Merry death of Christ!" Furthermore, when the fat man in the red suit laughs boisterously and says, "Ho ho ho, Merry Christmas", he is mocking Jesus.
Many are too foolish to understand the truth, because it's far too easy to follow the trend, instead of conducting your own research on this topic.
Christmas is nothing more than a pagan holiday.
What is your issue? Why do you care so much, to look all this stuff up and post and post and post. If you don't want to celebrate Christmas, don't! Maybe you can work for someone who does want to celebrate it.
OK, for the "Nth" time-I do not believe there is a war on Christmas. However, I do believe there are a lot of non-Christians out there who don't know what they're talking about.
The solstice is not December 25. This year, it is December 21. Some years it's Dec. 22. Then the length of days stays about the same, within minutes, until December 25, when it starts to lengthen again. According to a friend of mine (atheist) that is why Dec. 25 was chosen (the days start to get longer). Winter Solstice
According to some people who actually live in Israel, sometimes it IS warm enough for the shepherds to be out with their sheep on December 25. There is no way to know when exactly Jesus was born as people didn't note birth dates at the time. I'd like to know what in Luke indicates that Jesus was born in summer or fall.
Just for the sake of accuracy...Bethlehem isn't in Israel. It's in Palestine.
You didn't read my most recent post about this. (As if the weather were radically different in Palestine, which, unfortunately doesn't really exist, yet.) The link is in error, then.
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