Houston burger flippers on strike LOL (employment, wage, suspected, Obama)

[War Beagle]

Originally Posted by Oildog

If minimum wage is pushed up to $15/hour, everything else will get pushed up as well. Doing entry level fast food work has never been a 'career path'. It is a job but the hopes are you can move up to manage or own a store.

Yes, that is my problem with the whole "living wage" movement. Not every job is supposed to support a family. Some jobs (i.e. fast food) are intended for teenagers, college kids or maybe retirees who want to make a little more money. Flipping burgers has never been a career.

While there are always exceptions, I would be astounded if most of the people who can't get jobs better than burger flipping aren't in that situation because of choices they made. Most likely, they squandered the 12-13 years of free education they were provided and now are mad because they are unmarketable as far as jobs are concerned.

[radiolibre99]

Originally Posted by War Beagle

Yes, that is my problem with the whole "living wage" movement. Not every job is supposed to support a family. Some jobs (i.e. fast food) are intended for teenagers, college kids or maybe retirees who want to make a little more money. Flipping burgers has never been a career.

While there are always exceptions, I would be astounded if most of the people who can't get jobs better than burger flipping aren't in that situation because of choices they made. Most likely, they squandered the 12-13 years of free education they were provided and now are mad because they are unmarketable as far as jobs are concerned.

Is there a rule that says it can't be a career? I don't get this logic? All jobs should pay a livable wage, especially if the profits are obscenely high like in the case of Wal Mart.

Where do you guys get this idea that all of these jobs are populated by teenagers and old people. That's also a BIG myth.

Seriously, do some of you simply get all your news from right wing radio?

[eric3781]

Originally Posted by radiolibre99

When labor demands a raise considering the rise in corporate profits it's class warfare, it's stupid, it's unrealistic and everything else according to the other side.

There have already been a number of studies by economists who debunk the whole logic of rising prices in the event of a significant wage hike.

I am surprised no one has considered that possibly there could be a reduction in the salaries of the top brass to give more to the "dead beats" at the bottom? But oh no, that would go against liberty?

I really think the people who believe that raising the minimum wage is tantamount to a super hike in prices effectively destroying an industry are convinced that their logic is wrapped around some economic sense. It's not.It's a political issue. It's a fight for the gains of the profits. One side believes it's reserved for the top brass and not to the lowly "dead beat" "burger flippers", while the other side believes that they're not getting the full gains of their labor.

Also this could set off a nationwide demand for higher pay in all industries like the Treaty of Detroit during the 50s.

Labor is a commodity and its price is set by the marketplace. Don't like minimum wage? Learn a marketable skill, improve yourself, and get a better paying job. No one is forcing these poor downtrodden proles to flip burgers. No one held a gun to their head and said "flip my burgers for $7.25, peasant, or I'll shoot."

Move to a command economy socialist worker's paradise where the benevolent central government controls the means of production and dictates what you earn if you don't like market economies.

This commie farce you advocate has failed every time it has been tried.

[eric3781]

Originally Posted by radiolibre99

Is there a rule that says it can't be a career?

Yes. The market says so.

I don't get this logic? All jobs should pay a livable wage, especially if the profits are obscenely high like in the case of Wal Mart.

Who the hell are you to determine what is "obscenely high"? Who are you to dictate to a company or individual that they need to pay more? By what authority do you presume to declare that market forces need to be meddled with by artificially setting wage levels? What a load of complete and utter commie horse crap.

Where do you guys get this idea that all of these jobs are populated by teenagers and old people. That's also a BIG myth.

They should be. Adults trying to make a "livable wage", whatever the hell that is, should be learning a marketable skill that commands a higher wage.

Seriously, do some of you simply get all your news from right wing radio?

No we get our news from the basic laws of market economics. Not from Das Kapital.

[Kiovo]

Originally Posted by radiolibre99

Is there a rule that says it can't be a career? I don't get this logic? All jobs should pay a livable wage, especially if the profits are obscenely high like in the case of Wal Mart.

No, but if you choose to make it your career than you fully are aware how much you will be getting paid for that said career. So don't make it your "career" then claim you can't live off of this.

Minimum wage should increase, implement it over a couple of years like they did last time. Overnight bringing it to $15 will wreak havoc economically.

[Oildog]

Originally Posted by radiolibre99

Is there a rule that says it can't be a career? I don't get this logic? All jobs should pay a livable wage, especially if the profits are obscenely high like in the case of Wal Mart.

Where do you guys get this idea that all of these jobs are populated by teenagers and old people. That's also a BIG myth.

Seriously, do some of you simply get all your news from right wing radio?

No, all jobs shouldn't pay a livable wage...maybe for one person, but not to support a family. Spend some more time in the working world. Till then stick to video gaming.

If I could make what I do now in engineering as say a lifeguard at a beach. I'd get the umbrella and sunscreen asap.

[tc1209]

Originally Posted by radiolibre99

Is there a rule that says it can't be a career? I don't get this logic? All jobs should pay a livable wage, especially if the profits are obscenely high like in the case of Wal Mart.

You must be a supporter of the "everyone gets a trophy in youth sports" idea. Or maybe the one agreeing with the mindset of prescribing some sort of Attention Defecit Disorder medicine to any child who acts up or acts slightly different to cover up the real issue - weak a$$ parenting. Man up, take responsibility for yourself. You don't want a job that pays minimum wage then make the right decisions when you have the chance. Its not the company/goverment/anybody elses fault when you're pissed off that you didn't make good chocies and now you're 35 and stuck behind the counter at McDonalds. Now you dont even have to be good at your job and you could possibly be in line for a HUGE pay raise. I'm tired of this promotion of mediocrity.

Plus if these 35 year old fast food employees get a big pay raise then the cost of my drugs are gonna go up. NOBODY.MESSES.WITH.MY.DRUGS

[radiolibre99]

Ok so many right wing responses, so little time.

First off, you guys are right that labor is a commodity, its market-price, like all commodities, is set by supply and demand on the labor market.
When there is an over-supply of a commodity relative to demand, then the price of that commodity goes down. This is what happens when unemployment (the supply of labor) is high. This explains why big business tycoons are relatively happy with 8% unemployment and real unemployment at probably 15%.

But, more fundamentally, the price of labor, like all commodities, is ultimately controlled by its cost of production. If a commodity is cheap to make then its price will be cheap relative to other commodities.

This economy needs burger flippers. It is very cheap to produce a burger flipper. Raise them in poverty, give them crappy health care, crappy food and crappy education then you produce a cheap labor commodity.

After that you have useful tools such as many of you in here defending the status quo after the fact when a system like this is spawned.

But even then, since there is an artificial oversupply of cheap labor (high unemployment) the market price is even lower than the cost of production. Thus even the minimum wage is less than the cost of production and maintenance of a burger flipper, which, of course is exactly what giant corporations like McDonalds wants.

It is absolutely essential that society raise the minimum wage to around 15.00 an hour. It is one of the few political issues I have ever seen where I assumed most working people would agree with but of course there is a vocal minority such as the people in here that think what's good for the fast food industry is good for the worker. Raising the minimum wage operates to reduce profits. That is why the top dogs in the industry hate it so much.

It's a political battle plain and simple. It's not the result of some magic market forces that are beyond man's grasp. These rules don’t exist in nature; they are human creations. Governments or unions or workers don’t “intrude” on free markets; governments organize and maintain them. Markets aren’t “free” of rules; the rules define them.

As far as telling the dead beat burger flipper to learn a marketable skill, where do some of you expect the person to get the money to do that? A worker has to live, take care of children, drive a car, pay for college, etc. Personally I think all jobs require skill and the more you learn on the job the more you're qualified to do the job at other places in the same field. That's a skill. It's not valued on the same level as say an engineer or a doctor, obviously, but the time put in learning the industry does take some skill.

The fact that you guys look so lowly at the fast food workers shows that your arguments are based on pure elitism, plain and simple. There will not be a shortage of doctors or engineers if lifeguards make a livable wage. Good lord, what weed are you guys smoking? The rest of your arguments about to middle class moral chauvinism about "personal responsibility" and how all of you are self made John Galts, LOL.

Seriously, get some better arguments guys. They're tired and canned stuff I've heard before from right wing blowhards. Do a little better than that.

[979Texan]

I don't think I can do any better than look on in disgust when fast food workers think their trade calls for an annual salary of ~$30,000.

[radiolibre99]

I just posted an example of Moo Cluck Moo, a fast food joint that pays their employees 15 an hour. The sky isn't falling and the owner is opening up another location. Where do you guys get this idea that the nation will sink into the ocean if workers are paid a livable wage? I don't see other advanced nations, especially ones like Germany, Australia or France.

In France and Australia, workers at McDonalds get paid 12 and 14.50.
Where McDonald's wages start near $15 an hour- MSN Money

This battle is strictly political. Sorry guys, it has nothing to do with market logic.