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You are correct, freedom from religion is irrelevant because the government is not imposing a religion on you; the constitution protects you against government action. As such, the constitution protects the sole proprietor against being forced to serve a person who does not adhere to his or her religions views. Thus, the first amendment does, in fact, trump any state law in this regard. And I do think it is telling that a sole proprietor is being attacked (if that is in fact the case) because a sole propriety business would have a more centralized religious belief than, say, a couple hundred shareholders, of which one could not dissipher a cognizant religious goal.
Does not matter what your religious beliefs are, you cannot use your religion to discriminate against customers. What if one wanted to use their religion to discriminate against Jews, or black people, or Asians, American Indians, name your group even, should they be allowed to use their religion to discriminate? Think it through, where would it end and is it American, as in USA? Do we as a people believe that way?
Does not matter what your religious beliefs are, you cannot use your religion to discriminate against customers. What if one wanted to use their religion to discriminate against Jews, or black people, or Asians, American Indians, name your group even, should they be allowed to use their religion to discriminate? Think it through, where would it end and is it American, as in USA? Do we as a people believe that way?
I do not know of any religion with any justification to discriminate against a person based on race. I wonder if he would have made the cake for a gay person's birthday. A don't think the government should force a solo business owner to make a cake for a ceremony that belies his genuine religious beliefs.
Laugh all you want, it is still true whether you want it to be or not.
Have you ever actually tried speaking respectfully and frankly with a homosexual person and asking them how they felt about their sexuality? First hand information is the most accurate information, and you will find that many of the assumptions you are basing your rather childish reasoning on are completely erroneous, and that many of assumptions you have about homosexual persons are equally wrong.
I don't think you will make the effort to do this, though. Reading your posts in this thread, I can gather several facts about you.
1. You are incredibly ignorant concerning many social issues.
2. You are very proud of your ignorance and lack of knowledge.
3. You ignore or laugh off any information that goes against whatever preconceived notions you might have.
Why are you so sure you have all of the right answers when your mind is currently in an information-poor state? Why not try to study and learn about other people? What are you so afraid of? What kind of cognitive dissonance is causing you to shut off your mind to real growth and change?
And were I a mechanic I'd take a similar approach to, say, your brakes.
Funny you should mention that...
Y'see, I was a mechanic. Every shop I worked in had a sign posted: "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone!" I firmly believe EVERY business has (or should have) that right!
If we refused service, we would NOT say why. NOT EVER! If you tell them WHY you won't serve them, they will sue!
I do not know of any religion with any justification to discriminate against a person based on race. I wonder if he would have made the cake for a gay person's birthday. A don't think the government should force a solo business owner to make a cake for a ceremony that belies his genuine religious beliefs.
The baker in question agreed to make a wedding cake for a dog wedding.
Funny you should mention that...
Y'see, I was a mechanic. Every shop I worked in had a sign posted: "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone!" I firmly believe EVERY business has (or should have) that right!
And why should your firm beliefs matter to anyone but you?
I firmly believe EVERY business has (or should have) that right!
How very independent of you.
Fine. Hospitals declare they have the right to refuse service to all females. That means your wife/mother/sister/daughter gets turned away simply because she doesn't have a penis. You might want to check out places where the Taliban have strongholds if you're getting a tingle up your leg at the thought of refusing service based on the beliefs of a few.
BTW: The female doctors in that hospital have just decided that they aren't going to save your life because..... well just because. They firmly believe they should have that right!
And why should your firm beliefs matter to anyone but you?
Personally, I am getting more than a little sick of these people ranting and raving about their firmly/deeply/sincerely/whateverly held beliefs. Just what in the name of the FSM's noodly appendages makes people think their religious beliefs are so special and inviolable that they must never be challenged or spoken out against, that the person who holds said beliefs should never have to endure any kind of criticism, never have to perform any action for, or deal with any person that doesn't hold or in some way violates said person's beliefs, and that said beliefs are some kind of universal that other people are implicitly obligated to observe and follow, regardless of whatever laws or statues are in place that state otherwise. Do you know what I see when I hear or read people spewing that kind of nonsense? I don't see a respectable person courageously for standing up for their beliefs; far from it.
What I see is a small-minded and terribly frightened person who doesn't have the guts or the courage to realize there is a whole world outside of their tiny bubble of isolation; a wonderful world full of varied beliefs, peoples, cultures, and ways of life. A world that doesn't conform to their small-minded expectations. A world they are so terrified of that they won't even take a single moment out of a single day to examine their own beliefs, their own actions, and the effects these things have on the world and the people around them. To them, that is perhaps the most terrifying thing to them. The thought that they just might not have it right. After a lifetime of being told, and believing, that they have found the one correct belief system (how lucky of them!), they might have to begin to think, to question, to change. Change is probably the hardest thing of all. And they simply cannot handle it. And so what we see is this kind of lashing out, a last-ditch effort to reassert their rapidly waning and shriveling control over a society that is rapidly evolving and leaving them behind in the dust. Alone. Isolated. Irrelevant.
I am going to be perfectly honest, I don't even think a person's religious beliefs should be classified as protected at all. Unlike a person's race or sexual orientation, religious beliefs can be changed. Religion is not something you are born with, and it is not a fixed and unalterable aspect of a person's character or physical makeup. Religious beliefs are chosen. Even if your parents and your culture raised you within a specific religion, you still have it within you to make an adult choice to actually examine your beliefs, compare them to others, change them, or abandon them entirely.
Being gay is not a choice. Being the race you were born as is not a choice. Being transgendered is not a choice. Religion is ultimately always a choice, and if your choice brings you into conflict with people who have chosen to base their behavior and life stances on a more compassionate and humanistic belief system, that is your problem and nobody else's. We owe you NOTHING. We are NOT obligated to respect you or give the meanest amount of credence to you. You've made your bed, now you must sleep in it and deal with the consequences of your actions. If that means potentially getting fined, losing your business, or becoming socially ostracized, so be it. I have no sympathy for you. Indeed, I feel nothing for you but the utmost disgust and contempt. Perhaps one day you will learn to be a kinder, more caring and compassionate human being.
Last edited by Lunar Delta; 12-08-2013 at 02:21 PM..
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