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Ceece, I have to disagree with you: you just said, no one takes Christianity seriously, I don't think you really believe that? If no one took it seriously, why would many churches be full on Sundays, or in the cse of 7 day Adventists, Saturday? You may not be a Christian, your beliefs, which are yours and are to be respected, but please don't say nobody takes it seriously..
I'll clear this up...nobody takes Christianity seriously in the CD debate forums about Christians being persecuted because those posting here as Christian representatives are mostly idiots.
I'd like to say it's just limited to that....but I really can't. Churches are full of people who don't take it seriously. That's just a fact that can't be disputed.
Personally, I am getting more than a little sick of people ranting and raving about their firmly/deeply/sincerely/whateverly held beliefs. Just what in the name of the FSM's noodly appendages makes people think their religious beliefs are so special and inviolable that they must never be challenged or spoken out against, that the person who holds said beliefs should never have to endure any kind of criticism, never have to perform any action for, or deal with any person that doesn't hold or in some way violates said person's beliefs, and that said beliefs are some kind of universal that other people are implicitly obligated to observe and follow, regardless of whatever laws or statues are in place that state otherwise. Do you know what I see when I hear or read people spewing that kind of nonsense? I don't see a respectable person courageously for standing up for their beliefs; far from it. What I see is a small-minded and terribly frightened person who doesn't have the guts or the courage to realize there is a whole world outside of their tiny bubble of isolation; a wonderful world full of varied beliefs, peoples, cultures, and ways of life. A world that doesn't conform to their small-minded expectations. And they simply can't handle it.
Taking it one step further, I don't even think a person's religious beliefs should be classified as protected at all. Unlike a person's race or sexual orientation, religious beliefs can be changed. Religion is not something you are born with, and it is not a fixed and unalterable aspect of a person's character or physical makeup. Religious beliefs are chosen. Even if your parents and your culture raised you within a specific religion, you still have it within you to make an adult choice to actually examine your beliefs, compare them to others, change them, or abandon them entirely.
Being gay is not a choice. Being the race you were born as is not a choice. Being transgendered is not a choice. Religion is ultimately always a choice, and if your choice brings you into conflict with people who have chosen to base their behavior and life stances on a more compassionate and humanistic belief system, that is your problem and nobody else's. We owe you NOTHING. We are NOT obligated to respect you or pay the slightest amount of lip service to you. You've made your bed, now you must sleep in it and deal with the consequences of your actions. If that means potentially getting fined, losing your business, or becoming socially ostracized, so be it. I have no sympathy for you. Indeed, I feel nothing for you but the utmost disgust and contempt. Perhaps one day you will learn to be a kinder, more caring and compassionate human being.
This was posted without any self-awareness whatsoever. The attitude you display here is one of the biggest reasons people dislike LGBTFMLBBQ people. What is it that makes straight, Christian people so unworthy, and you so important? If I came at you with that attitude, swapped Christian for gay and vice versa, you'd break your ankles tripping over yourself to slit my throat. In the real world, people cant see that you are gay unless you tell them, through dress, action, or downright directly saying so. You may not be able to pick who you want to sleep with, but you can damn well pick what you say and do. We'll never know what really happened with the cake folks, but as that lovely waitress with the faked receipt showed, being gay doesn't make you good. If someone is a dick to you, call them out on it, personally, or move on. When you get this upset, and play the passive pages as I've games of suing, invading, and DEMANDING acceptance, you lose any chance at getting respect. As my favorite professor told our class, if everyone you know seems to be an A-hole, maybe it's not them.
Last edited by DearAbby; 12-08-2013 at 02:21 PM..
Reason: spelling and grammar
And why should your firm beliefs matter to anyone but you?
And why should you be forced to violate your personal beliefs to appease others? This was not a life saving, nor was it a unique service. The couple could have had their cake made anywhere. So where do we end freedoms?
I have to serve anyone and everyone no matter what. So what's the next step? Forcing people to buy products they don't want? Hmmm wait Obamacare covered that one. How about forcing people to buy from merchants regardless of how they feel about the service or the product?
We have freedom to believe what we want and gather accordingly with like minded believers. That freedom stops when we involve society at large, like running a public business that is governed by secular law. A simple concept that we make so complicated.
We do not have absolute and 100% freedom to do what we want all the time. That's never been the definition of "freedom". We are all so lucky to live in the USA but go out of our way to make ourselves (and everyone around us) miserable because we are too stupid to understand simple things and try to insist that our thoughts trump all.
This was posted without any self-awareness whatsoever. The attitude you display here is one of the biggest reasons people dislike LGBTFMLBBQ people.
Let's flip this around. The attitude displayed by these business owners and many of the people who post on this forum are one of the biggest reasons people like me take issue with large segments of religious populations.
Quote:
What is it that makes straight, Christian people so unworthy, and you so important?
Unworthy? Unworthy of what? Of love? Of respect? Of compassion? I never claimed straight Christian people as a group were unworthy of anything, but rather I was denouncing certain individuals' (of which there are many) use of their beliefs as a tool to inflict harm, sadness, or even trivial and totally unnecessary inconveniences on people who have done nothing to them other than exist in a way that happens to offend them.
Quote:
If I came at you with that attitude, swapped Christian for gay and vice versa, you'd break your ankles tripping over yourself to slit my throat.
Well, number one, I would never attack you in that manner (Literally or figuratively). Two, you cannot compare being a Christian to being gay. Being a Christian is completely a matter of choice. Being gay is not.
Quote:
In the real world, people cant see that you are gay unless you tell them, through dress, action, or downright directly saying so. You may not be able to pick who you want to sleep with, but you can damn well pick what you say and do.
So what you are really saying is that these people should just shut up, stay in the closet, and hide who and what they are? Nice. Really nice. Silencing tactics. Classy. This is exactly the kind of attitude (or at least a component of it) that I was discussing in my post. They should never have to hide anything about who or what they are. And you know what? Neither should any Christian (or Muslim, or Jew, or what have you) either, as long as their self expression isn't causing real tangible harm to others.
Quote:
We'll never know what really happened with the cake folks, but as that lovely waitress with the faked receipt showed, being gay doesn't make you good.
Of course it doesn't. I've known plenty of unpleasant homosexuals. Just as I have also known many loving and kind Christians. Would you believe I actually worked at a church for almost seven years straight? I ran their sound, recorded their sermons, and edited them for radio broadcast. Those people were as good as family to me, and I will always remember them fondly. This was my office for all those years:
Quote:
If someone is a dick to you, call them out on it, personally, or move on. When you get this upset, and play the passive pages as I've games of suing, invading, and DEMANDING acceptance, you lose any chance at getting respect. As my favorite professor told our class, if everyone you know seems to be an A-hole, maybe it's not them.
The fact that they have to demand acceptance at all for totally innocuous factors far beyond their control is in itself proof that a serious problem exists. These people are not nefarious criminals. They are, by and large, totally normal people who happen to be attracted to people of the same physical sex. Acceptance should never be an issue in the first place.
Let's flip this around. The attitude displayed by these business owners and many of the people who post on this forum are one of the biggest reasons people like me take issue with large segments of religious populations.
Unworthy? Unworthy of what? Of love? Of respect? Of compassion? I never claimed straight Christian people as a group were unworthy of anything, but rather I was denouncing certain individuals' (of which there are many) use of their beliefs as a tool to inflict harm, sadness, or even trivial and totally unnecessary inconveniences on people who have done nothing to them other than exist in a way that happens to offend them.
Well, number one, I would never attack you in that manner (Literally or figuratively). Two, you cannot compare being a Christian to being gay. Being a Christian is completely a matter of choice. Being gay is not.
So what you are really saying is that these people should just shut up, stay in the closet, and hide who and what they are? Nice. Really nice. Silencing tactics. Classy.
Of course it doesn't. I've known plenty of unpleasant homosexuals. Just as I have also known many loving and kind Christians. Would you believe I actually worked at a church for almost seven years straight? I ran their sound, recorded their sermons, and edited them for radio broadcast. Those people were as good as family to me, and I will always remember them fondly. This was my office for all those years:
The fact that they have to demand acceptance at all for totally innocuous factors far beyond their control is in itself proof that a serious problem exists. These people are not nefarious criminals. They are, by and large, totally normal people who happen to be attracted to people of the same physical sex. Acceptance should never be an issue in the first place.
I keep wanting to rep you , but this confounded machine won't let me.
Consider yourself repped.
Well, isn't that lovely. So instead of just being adults, we get Unca Govt to make the mean men be nice? That sure makes me feel positively wonderful about gay folks.
And Christians are right to be wary of gay folks. Gay men have been shown, even in today's accepting world, to be frequently depressed, promiscuous, and drug-using, to the point that AIDS levels are actually rising again. Pride parades used to be attended quite openly by NAMBLA folks, and their are still many problems within the gay community with "chickenhawks" who pursue underage men for casual sex.
On the other side, children of lesbian couples tend to be more depressed, work full-time at less than half the rate of others, and are more likely to engage in self I destructive behavior than children of straights.
That said, bone whomever you like, but please don't pretend gay people are perfect, their attitudes need as much work as the Christians who can't tolerate them.
What a bunch of nonsense, "Dear Abby."
What are your reliable and credible sources for spouting the bunch of defamation and judgement against LGBT families???? Huh????
On the contrary, major international organizations like the American Psychological Association, the Royal Cellege of Physicans, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the Federation of Pediatric Organizations, the National Institute of Mental Health, etc., etc. ... would DISAGREE with your bogus claims.
By the way, the real Dear Abby - Abigail Van Buren - was speaking out in favor of gay rights as far back as 40 years ago!
Absolutely. That would be the consequences of having such body art applied. He dies - no foul on the part of the doctor and I would back that doctor 100%.
That's terrible.
Your personal beliefs are your personal beliefs, but your job is your job.
Outside of your honor (no lying, cheating) and your work ethic, your personal life does not belong.
I keep wanting to rep you , but this confounded machine won't let me.
Consider yourself repped.
Why thank you! I keep trying to rep you guys as well (you know who you are!) but I never seem to be able to. We need to develop some kind of cyclic repping system between us so that we can continually rep and re-rep each other without having to stop or get held up.
(Note to any moderators or administrators reading this: I am just joking! Hehe!)
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