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1) I'm not a Republican and could care less if they ever get another vote. Read the screen name...it's a clue on where I fall ideologically.
2) Nothing I wrote is untrue. The Democrat party is more responsible for the destruction of the black family and their status as both permanent economic underclass and (ironically) political royalty, and they reward this with 90-95% voting loyalty. The DNC has absolute control of the low info media political complex, and the narrative there is that anything a Republican does or says is racist, here's some free stuff, etc. This is not true and everything you wrote in it is not true. The traditional family structure of this country is in decline with all demographics, not just black people. Blacks initially switched support to the Democratic party moreso because FDR did not exclude black people in his New Deal programs but most Americans at the time supported the New Deal. LBJ also signed the Civil Rights Act, which caused a lot of black people to remain solid Democrats. So that voting loyalty has nothing to do with the "destruction of the black family." Also, it has been common over the years for many posters to day us black people get "free stuff." I am still waiting for my black free stuff.....
I agree with you that the DNC will espouse the belief that the GOP is racist, but the GOP buys into it and does nothing to combat that image. Most people, no matter black or white (and this is my opinion) are not that bright when it comes to political things. They also believe what they hear from trusted friends or media sources and so are naïve in that way and they fall for the mantra of the GOP are racist. But there is a minority who are not like this and they are the ones who would vote for the GOP if they took a stand against those who fall into the stereotypical racist portrayal of a racist Republican candidate.
3) No race has been sold welfare statism as much as blacks, and consequently, no race has bought into its destructive effects as much, and the data does not lie, regardless of your particular lack of intellectual honesty on the subject. There was a study recently that stated that over the course of one's life that 80% of all Americans will depend on some sort of social welfare assistance program. Due to the historic poverty levels of black Americans, we have had a lot of assistance, but to think that it entails a lifetime of welfare dependency is incorrect. The average stay on welfare is 2-3 years. That is not significant in a lifetime. FWIW, I am black, my mom was on welfare when she had me as a teen mom. She eventually got a minimum wage job when I was in kindergarten, she got her GED, went onto college and now has her own business. Most people I know who have been on welfare are similar to her who are black, they at least make it to the lower class echelons, where they do not qualify for social assistance program, basically working class.
But it is incorrect to assume that all black people fall into the welfare trap as well. Since the 1960s poverty has been cut in half in regards to black people in America. Even though my mom was poor, her family was not - she was born in the early 1960s, and my grandmother (her mother) was college educated, so she was not born into poverty or into a welfare dependent family. She also never received housing assistance due to the fact that my grandparents owned multiple homes. They showed tough love by kicking her out of their home, but she got a rental home - rent free to live in. They didn't pay for our food or utilities though. So my mom's family in particular and even my dad grew up in middle class households. They were not on welfare and none of my brothers are currently on welfare (there are 4 of us). One of my younger brothers gets housing assistance, but it is funny in that he is married to a very nice young lady, they have two kids and both of them work but they make so little that they still qualify for housing subsidies, but they are an intact black family so maybe that means something lol.
4) The Republicans are fools for even trying to "get the black vote" because nothing they say, do or try will ever be portrayed as anything other than base racism. That is your opinion. There are already black Republicans and there are many black independents. I stated that I feel they could get upwards of 15% of the black vote if they toned down the anti-black rhetoric and welfare mantras that you yourself repeated. Unfortunately, the idea that we are all on welfare getting "free stuff" is widespread in this country. The GOP though could easily, I'd say within 10 years work to get that 15% and bring moderates into the party to do just that instead of relying on crazy black Tea Partiers to be their token blacks because that is not going to bring in a large amount of black voters.
5) Intellectually honest question, requesting same from answer - how are Republicans supposed to get the black vote if note promising more free candy than the Dems? What exactly would do it that they haven't tried? Are you honestly saying that smart libertarians making accurate social commentary on obscure message boards is their electoral problem with blacks, and shutting me up is their big winner?
As previously stated, GOPers can reach out to black voters without "free candy." The majority of black Americans are not on any social welfare program and do not depend on the mystical "free stuff" that is supposedly given to them by Dems. By all accounts, many black voters are not solidly Dem but vote for them because they are seen as just a tad bit better than the GOP due to issues I cited above. They have not tried making it a primary function of their party to be inclusive of all peoples in this country, not just black people, who are for fiscal responsibility and hold conservative values. They can stop the racial rhetoric especially to garner more support from not only blacks but Hispanics and Asians as well. If they shy away from the religious portion, I have not doubt they could even pull in more LGBT voters by sticking with their party's previous positions of not having the government interfere with the personal lives of its citizens. They can "re-brand" their party and make it a big event and highlight their new direction. They may alienate a tad, the racist, religious wing of the party, but, like black people now with Dems, I have no doubt that the racist/religious wing will hold their noses and vote for the new brand because they would see the GOP as better than the "libruls."
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Originally Posted by dsjj251
Jim Crow was a southern affliction, not a political one. Republicans in the South agreed with it just as much as the Democrats. I did not state that this wasn't true, only that Paul, when he went to Howard assumed that black people didn't know this just like it seems you are assuming the same thing. Howard is considered the "Harvard" of HBCUs. I have a couple family members now who are alums. They know about American history, especially in regards to Civil Rights as do I. I also went to an HBCU.
He isnt going to sway any Black people with libertarian economic ideology. There are already black liberatarians. I dont know all of Paul's views, but speaking from what i have seen from libertarians, it doesnt look good. I agree, I have a poor view of libertarians in general, but as stated, there are already black libertarians, or independent black people who agree with many libertarian positions.
they claim people have a right to form a union(even thought they philosophically disagree with them) but that a company has the right to fire you for forming one. Its basically saying that they want the company and the individual to be on an even playing field, but if one have 10 billion dollars, an army of lawyers and the other is a regular person, then that isnt even.
There is also the minimum wage argument which really makes no sense to me. They believe that lowering or completely getting rid of the minimum wage would create more jobs, the problem with that argument is any job created would be lower wage. There argument for this is that people should use these low wage jobs as a stepping stone to better ones, but they never really explain how that works. There are obviously people who are in their 40's 50's and even 60's who work minimum and low wage jobs who have to survive off of that little pay because they do not have the skill or education set to move up( probably because they cant afford the schooling or training).
Responses shown in blue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
What have the GOP done to get the black vote? Have they listened to what various segments of the black population? Or have they peddled out various black idiots like Allen West.
Believe me there are a good many blacks who would listen to Michael Steele, and even Condi Rice, when she isn't peddling GOP dogma.
10% of the black population are immigrants. 30% now earn more than the average white household, and many reject the humiliation of welfare dependency, because it goes against traditional southern black values.
So tell me why can GOP candidates like Mike Bloomberg, and Christine Todd Whitman get roughly 35% of the black vote, with even Chris Cristie getting roughly 20%?
The fact that the GOP pulls only 5% in national elections is because people like you peddle racist crap about black people and expect us to like you all.
Why should I vote for a party which says that I as a black man is a "taker".
ITA with the above. The fact that moderate Republicans can garner so much black support amongst their individual states is proof that with the right candidate and image the GOP can get many black votes. I also spoke of my own home state of Ohio previously. I voted for a GOP governor back in the 90s. He was a traditional, moderate (sane) Republican. Run more of those, even those who black people don't agree with 100%, like Chris Christie and black people will vote for them.
And FWIW, black people actually don't have a vehemently poor view of Michael Steele or Condi Rice. Steele was a frequent contributor on the Tom Joyner Morning Show when he was the head of the RNC. He spoke a lot (to a wide black audience in that the show I am speaking of has 10-15 million, predominately black listeners every day so nearly 1/3 of the black population of this country) about how the GOP is a viable option for black voters. But the RNC got rid of him rather quickly. There are many black people who connected with Michael Steele especially and he was one of the first to suggest that the RNC go out and re-brand itself as a more inclusive party and for them to lean on Republicans as the "party of Lincoln" and be for empowering all people in this country.
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Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian
The War on Poverty and the Great Society. Check the pre-1964 record of out of wedlock birth, single mother/no father present households, and economic mobility. Hell, check the record of Harlem schools before and after forced integration and using busing to accomplish it. All of this is peddled by Democrats more at the black community than anyone else. The number one statistical corollary to poverty, crime and most negative socioeconomic conditions is the single mother household. It is more accurate than race, age, geography...anything. Welfare makes the single mother, absentee father household profitable, and again, no race has had this bill of goods marketed at them harder than blacks, thus it should be no surprise which race leads the nation in the most destructive socioeconomic predictor out there.
The War on Poverty and the Great Society did not happen as a result of black people. The pre-1964 OOW birth of black women showed that OOW births occurred at 6 times the rate of OOW white births. Currently, the OOW births of black women are only 2 times the rate of white OOW births. The rate has not risen as dramatically within the black population as that of other demographics, most notably whites and Hispanics. Studies show that economic mobility is still a tough mountain to climb for all demographics in our country, but like I stated earlier, black poverty has been cut in half since the 1960s and more black people have high school diplomas, college degrees, and advanced degrees today versus any other time period in our country's nation.
I am not familiar with Harlem schools, but I am not a supporter of bussing as a ways to equal education, I feel that that was a huge mistake supported by the leaders of civil rights leaders/groups in the past in that they thought that being with white people would be better, but I am of the belief that that idea was steeped in a feeling of trying to prove oneself to white people (we can do it too, we are just as smart, we are just as capable, etc....) and I feel that that is debasing and unnecessary and did more harm than good since many white educators, families, and children were hostile toward black educators, families, and children and didn't have the black children's best interest at heart when it comes to ensuring adequate education. Many black people feel the same way (we had wonderful debates about this in college, even most of my professors did not see the benefits of integration and they were of the era who protested during the CRM and saw the errors of their beliefs in the current time period).
But welfare is not "marketed" at black people. For those on the government dole, black people are not the majority, nor are they the only demographic using it. Also, if one looks into the largest "welfare" programs - Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security, black people are actually underrepresented on these programs, especially Social Security of which we pay into since the mortality age for black Americans - especially black males - is the lowest of practically every other ethnicity in this country, save the American Indian.
Where am I making excuses for Republicans? Both parties peddle welfare statism, the Republicans just came to the party 25 years too late.
What have the GOP done to get the black vote? Have they listened to what various segments of the black population? Or have they peddled out various black idiots like Allen West.
Believe me there are a good many blacks who would listen to Michael Steele, and even Condi Rice, when she isn't peddling GOP dogma.
So apparently if Republicans want to "reach out" they need to do it with conservative blacks? Why don't Democrats have to reach out with black people? Why is it that a white Democrat can grab 95% black voting loyalty, but a Republican needs to be black to hope for 10%, when the message of both parties is fundamentally the same in regards to the white guilt, bending over backwards to make friends with the black community?
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
10% of the black population are immigrants. 30% now earn more than the average white household, and many reject the humiliation of welfare dependency, because it goes against traditional southern black values.
So tell me why can GOP candidates like Mike Bloomberg, and Christine Todd Whitman get roughly 35% of the black vote, with even Chris Cristie getting roughly 20%?
Welfare statism. Bloomberg, Whitman and Christie are firmly entrenched in the RINO liberal end of the GOP spectrum. They act like Democrats better than their other GOP colleagues. In fact, using those three is an especially good way to show that by being a more sincere and vocal supporter of an entrenched, expanded and more racially tilted in blacks favor welfare state, the better a candidate is likely to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
The fact that the GOP pulls only 5% in national elections is because people like you peddle racist crap about black people and expect us to like you all.
Why should I vote for a party which says that I as a black man is a "taker".
I don't have a party. This a point that seems to be lost on everyone. I vote for worthwhile Libertarians, or not at all.
But one thing that hasn't been lost on me is that nobody can answer what the Republicans can or should do to improve their national percentage of the black vote? OK, Christie does better with blacks...a whopping 20%! So what about Christie's platform in particular is something the Republicans are missing? What policy, agenda, or platform plank is being suggested as the "do this, and black people will vote for you" solution?
All I ever read is that Republicans are racist and need to reach out. Reach out how?
So apparently if Republicans want to "reach out" they need to do it with conservative blacks? Why don't Democrats have to reach out with black people? Why is it that a white Democrat can grab 95% black voting loyalty, but a Republican needs to be black to hope for 10%, when the message of both parties is fundamentally the same in regards to the white guilt, bending over backwards to make friends with the black community?
Welfare statism. Bloomberg, Whitman and Christie are firmly entrenched in the RINO liberal end of the GOP spectrum. They act like Democrats better than their other GOP colleagues. In fact, using those three is an especially good way to show that by being a more sincere and vocal supporter of an entrenched, expanded and more racially tilted in blacks favor welfare state, the better a candidate is likely to do.
I don't have a party. This a point that seems to be lost on everyone. I vote for worthwhile Libertarians, or not at all.
But one thing that hasn't been lost on me is that nobody can answer what the Republicans can or should do to improve their national percentage of the black vote? OK, Christie does better with blacks...a whopping 20%! So what about Christie's platform in particular is something the Republicans are missing? What policy, agenda, or platform plank is being suggested as the "do this, and black people will vote for you" solution?
All I ever read is that Republicans are racist and need to reach out. Reach out how?
Sigh....Democrats DO reach out to black people!!
I am a black independent and I am not declared as I don't have to declare political affiliation in my state and Democrats do come to my house and call me and try to get me to vote Democrat. The Democratic party is VERY active in urban areas around the country and usually have an office in a black neighborhood - think Bill Clinton and his decision to headquarter his office in Harlem.
I am somewhat active in my neighborhood and associations/groups in Atlanta where I live and I know a lot of the black political machine on a personal level and they are always doing outreach, sponsoring events, canvassing neighborhoods during elections, getting out information regarding legislation, etc.
Evidently, you don't know much about Democrats and their "presence" in black neighborhood. At least 3 black Democrats live in my neighborhood who are state and local politicians and I live in the ghetto lol.
And being black as a Republican will not garner more black support. Just like being a black Democrat is not an automatic win with black voters. If that were the case the many (who I deem) crazy black GOPers who have run for president would have received a large amount of black votes in the primaries. They didn't.
You once again are showing the problems with the GOP in that you are basing voting habits along racial lines. Contrary to what you may believe, white Democrats in particular, do not do this. They speak in generalities. Black Dems do (but not on camera lol). Rarely do you hear a white Dem on the national stage speak about helping black people specifically. Instead they speak of job creation, public school funding/reform, they speak of issues that affect a largely urban landscape. Speaking in generalities in t his way ensures inclusion and doesn't exclude others. Also, when a white Dem says something stupid in racial terms - they are talked about just as badly by the press but are also VERY quick to apologize and seek forgiveness, something that is not true in regards to the GOP. FWIW, black people in general are very forgiving people - I feel as a black person that is one of our best qualities as a group, and someone is sincere and apologizes in a sincere fashion, they will be forgiven more than likely because the majority of black people are very religious and forgiveness is a part of being a good Christian in particular. FWIW, I am an atheist, but I still forgive way too easily sometimes. IMO it is best to just forgive and move on.
I am a black independent and I am not declared as I don't have to declare political affiliation in my state and Democrats do come to my house and call me and try to get me to vote Democrat. The Democratic party is VERY active in urban areas around the country and usually have an office in a black neighborhood - think Bill Clinton and his decision to headquarter his office in Harlem.
I am somewhat active in my neighborhood and associations/groups in Atlanta where I live and I know a lot of the black political machine on a personal level and they are always doing outreach, sponsoring events, canvassing neighborhoods during elections, getting out information regarding legislation, etc.
Evidently, you don't know much about Democrats and their "presence" in black neighborhood. At least 3 black Democrats live in my neighborhood who are state and local politicians and I live in the ghetto lol.
And being black as a Republican will not garner more black support. Just like being a black Democrat is not an automatic win with black voters. If that were the case the many (who I deem) crazy black GOPers who have run for president would have received a large amount of black votes in the primaries. They didn't.
You once again are showing the problems with the GOP in that you are basing voting habits along racial lines. Contrary to what you may believe, white Democrats in particular, do not do this. They speak in generalities. Black Dems do (but not on camera lol). Rarely do you hear a white Dem on the national stage speak about helping black people specifically. Instead they speak of job creation, public school funding/reform, they speak of issues that affect a largely urban landscape. Speaking in generalities in t his way ensures inclusion and doesn't exclude others. Also, when a white Dem says something stupid in racial terms - they are talked about just as badly by the press but are also VERY quick to apologize and seek forgiveness, something that is not true in regards to the GOP. FWIW, black people in general are very forgiving people - I feel as a black person that is one of our best qualities as a group, and someone is sincere and apologizes in a sincere fashion, they will be forgiven more than likely because the majority of black people are very religious and forgiveness is a part of being a good Christian in particular. FWIW, I am an atheist, but I still forgive way too easily sometimes. IMO it is best to just forgive and move on.
Still doesn't answer the "how to reach out" question. Republicans DO talk about job creation. All the freaking time. They talk about improving education. All the freaking time. They cover all the generalities. Also, black and Hispanics are the two highest percentages of Christians by race demographic, so the alleged GOP pandering to Christians should be in the black voter wheelhouse as well.
I am still not seeing the "how" of reaching out to black voters as Republicans?
And once more FOR THE CHEAP SEATS....I AM NOT A REPUBLICAN, and I actually loathe them more than Democrats because Democrats are at least honest about being socialist tyrants.
Why exactly? If no blacks chose to attend, that would make THEM racist, I think. Unless you can prove that the GOP turned away blacks, you've got nothing.
All the Dixiecrats fled the Democratic party to the GOP after the Civil Rights Act.
So tell us why should we trust the GOP? What have they done to rid themselves of that group?
First of all this is 2013 not 1963. There are no "Dixiecrats" in the Republican Party today. Mitt Romney is hardly a Dixiecrat. The last known Klansman in office was Democrat Robert Byrd.
Still doesn't answer the "how to reach out" question. Republicans DO talk about job creation. All the freaking time. They talk about improving education. All the freaking time. They cover all the generalities. Also, black and Hispanics are the two highest percentages of Christians by race demographic, so the alleged GOP pandering to Christians should be in the black voter wheelhouse as well.
I am still not seeing the "how" of reaching out to black voters as Republicans?
And once more FOR THE CHEAP SEATS....I AM NOT A REPUBLICAN, and I actually loathe them more than Democrats because Democrats are at least honest about being socialist tyrants.
Duh...
they "reach out" by going to black neighborhoods doing the following as I have mentioned that Dems do:
1 - Canvass the neighborhoods during elections (this means going door to door with a message)
2 - Sponsor events at black neighborhood schools or community organizations (the local Boys & Girls Club or YMCA for example has youth programs that need sponsoring, Christmas parties, Spring Festivals, etc.) This is a big one for Dems in my area, they frequently sponsor neighborhood events
3 - Put your office in a black neighborhood and hire some people from the neighborhood (this is done by Dems all over the country and hopefully this is what Paul is doing in Detroit as it is what it looks like and this can be a first step)
4 - Move to the neighborhood. All black neighborhoods aren't hell holes and there are very nice black neighborhoods (from working class to upper class) all over the country, have someone move there and be a good neighbor.
Those are steps the GOP can take. That is fine if you aren't a republican and FWIW Democrats (I am not one of those) are not socialist.
FWIW Democrats (I am not one of those) are not socialist.
The American version of it...sure they are. Welfare statism is the American implementation of European Fabian socialism, we just minority benevolence as the marketing tool. But all roads for Democrats and maybe 90-95% of Republicans is have government take over and make sure stuff is fair according to their rather amorphous definition of that word.
They seek to control the means of production of increasing amounts of the private sector, as evidenced with stuff like ObamaCare, where 1/6th of the economy wasn't working properly for their political needs, so they took it over. It will work worse for the citizenry, but can be more easily manipulated for politics.
And the closest roadmap to the modern Democrat party platform you have is the 25 Points of the National Socialist German Workers Party, published in 1928. Just replace the word "Jew" with "CEO" or "top 1%" and replace the word "German" with "poor and Middle class Americans." Don't take my word for it, go read it. It's the foundation of all leftist politics - government tells the have-nots who among their fellow citizens are the enemy, why/how they should be punished, and how that will make everything all better.
Take a look at the signature legislation du jour. ObamaCare is premised on insurance companies and rich people with great health plans being evil. This is why the average citizen cannot afford their "right" to healthcare (which makes health care providers slaves, but I digress). If we punish both those rich people and the insurance companies, all will be right with the world and everyone will live to be 250 years old. It will be better, more accessible, cost less and only evil people will be made to suffer for the greater good. In order to do this, the government must take it over, and oh yeah, we're going to force you to play along, but that's ok because you're better off with our coercion than left to your own devices, and hey, the top 1% are evil and we care.
Now go back and read the pre-blitzkrieg rhetoric of the Nazis. It's not vastly different minus singling out Jews as the root of all evil. We simply swapped the "top 1%" as some faceless evil that only Fuhrer Sam can save us from.
Again, Republicans are no different, they simply swap out a few bullet points on the "here's proof we care" list. But it works out to be our version of Fabian socialism, regardless of political science nomenclature.
The War on Poverty and the Great Society. Check the pre-1964 record of out of wedlock birth, single mother/no father present households, and economic mobility. Hell, check the record of Harlem schools before and after forced integration and using busing to accomplish it. All of this is peddled by Democrats more at the black community than anyone else. The number one statistical corollary to poverty, crime and most negative socioeconomic conditions is the single mother household. It is more accurate than race, age, geography...anything. Welfare makes the single mother, absentee father household profitable, and again, no race has had this bill of goods marketed at them harder than blacks, thus it should be no surprise which race leads the nation in the most destructive socioeconomic predictor out there.
Where am I making excuses for Republicans? Both parties peddle welfare statism, the Republicans just came to the party 25 years too late.
Sorry the biggest cause for the drop in marriage was due to;
1. declining low skilled jobs in urban areas due to automation, and jobs moved to the suburbs, the South, and ultimately overseas, which escalated unemployment among less educated black men
2. in order to make the social support systems palatable to the conservatives only women and kids were covered, so the men had to leave the home, as in order to get assistance women were forced to become single parents.
And don't try your racist rant that only blacks are welfare recipients. Large numbers of whites get food stamps, unemployment, social security disability and Medicaid, and indeed since 2008 this is where most of the growth of people benefitting from these programs come from.
Then of course we have a wasteful farming subsidies which are designed to benefit wealthy landowners on Red States.
Try again when you insist that only the liberals were to blame. True they aren't blameless, but then neither are the conservatives.
Despite your ranting there has been a significant growth in the numbers of blacks with college degrees, and who work in professional/technical/management capacities.
You see the reason why we cant support the GOP is that it includes too many people like you who view blacks as being a dysfunctional monolith.
You have still to explain why more that 70% of Asian Indians voted for Obama TWICE.
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