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Old 12-11-2013, 09:27 PM
 
8,481 posts, read 6,165,068 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
It's great for the NSA because they don't have to spend too much money or resources on surveillance. People are delusional enough to believe they have superpowers.
I guess "too much" is a relative term. Hard to know exactly what they are spending or making. Not exactly the most transparent agency when it comes to accounting.
But again I haven't seen what you are stating, though I suppose "super powers" is also a relative term, as well. Technology these days can do what many may have once put in such a category. The classified and black stuff, well that is hard to even discuss.

Data is very valuable. It is bought and sold. A reputation "false" or otherwise will not get you better results or better data.

Mostly what I have seen is people not happy about being spied on or that they are being profited from in ways they may have been unaware. Also have seen plenty on here and elsewhere that don't care.

I have seen reports of significant behavioral trends that will impact the market and I am sure this has those in that market concerned.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d4g4m View Post
Det. Gore L&O criminal intent was always watching body language. I learned something from it. When Clapper gave his congressional testimony, he gave a big 'tell' that he was lying. Looking down, lightly scratching his head while talking. His answer was a big lie.
Imagine you're in your early 20's, just got out of IT school looking for a job. Not familiar with what exactly the mission of the NSA. At the job interview, you see banks of computers and a lot of people. He asks 'what do you do here?' Answer from NSA recruiter- 'We spy on American citizens, we violate their 4th amendment rights 24/7. We listen to their phone calls, read their e-mail, watch what web sites they visit. And we do all this without bothering to get a search warrant for any of them. Hey!! we don't need no stinkin' search warrant'. Thanks for the insight, but no thanks. I'll look for a job at McDonalds or Wal-mart.
I am curious what those recruitment posters looked like they apparently took down. That one student implied you could basically spy on people then go party. All the while having that cushy career.
Of course there is nothing really new there and this is a fairly universal marketing technique.

Girls und Panzer artist draws recruitment poster for Japanese Self Defence...
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Old 12-12-2013, 05:26 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDusr View Post
The classified and black stuff, well that is hard to even discuss.
It's not really that hard when the people who work there are the same folks who were your research colleagues. Also, the calculations required to do what people they do cannot be refuted. Some problems are not computationally tractable no matter how many advancements occur in hardware. They have no closed form solution that can be computed in our lifetimes. Heck, even a trivial thing like the knapsack problem or traveling salesperson problem is not something all the NSA computers can solve in our lifetimes, nor will they ever be able to.
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
It's not really that hard when the people who work there are the same folks who were your research colleagues. Also, the calculations required to do what people they do cannot be refuted. Some problems are not computationally tractable no matter how many advancements occur in hardware. They have no closed form solution that can be computed in our lifetimes. Heck, even a trivial thing like the knapsack problem or traveling salesperson problem is not something all the NSA computers can solve in our lifetimes, nor will they ever be able to.
Not sure what this has to do with classified or black unless you are claiming you have access. However, that still wouldn't make it easy for others to discuss w/o proper data, LOL. Your next sentence I cannot make out. Sure there are always computational limits being pushed. But as I said I haven't seen people stating what you say you have seen.

Last edited by CDusr; 12-12-2013 at 08:14 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDusr View Post
Not sure what this has to do with classified or black unless you are claiming you have access. However, that still wouldn't make it easy for others to discuss w/o proper data, LOL. Your next sentence I cannot make out. Sure there are always computational limits being pushed. But as I said I haven't seen people stating what you say you have seen.
I am intentionally cryptic about knowing or not knowing. I do not want to jeopardize anyone's existing clearance who may or may not share information with me.

The computational limits are mathematical in nature. Even a revolutionary jump in the way we do computing won't make a dent in solving these kinds of problems. Wiki NP-complete for further information.

The point is that the NSA is not capable of being everywhere to listen on everyone, but ignorant people believing they can is the NSA's greatest strength. It's one thing to record everything. It's quite another to possess the capability to analyze it in real-time.
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:01 PM
 
8,481 posts, read 6,165,068 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
I am intentionally cryptic about knowing or not knowing. I do not want to jeopardize anyone's existing clearance who may or may not share information with me.

The computational limits are mathematical in nature. Even a revolutionary jump in the way we do computing won't make a dent in solving these kinds of problems. Wiki NP-complete for further information.

The point is that the NSA is not capable of being everywhere to listen on everyone, but ignorant people believing they can is the NSA's greatest strength. It's one thing to record everything. It's quite another to possess the capability to analyze it in real-time.
Didn't seem too cryptic. Lot's of compartmentalization and private contracting that goes on, however.

NP-complete does seem to be an interesting area that both DNA and Quantum computing are being used to research.

I imagine being "omnipresent" as you have characterized this abstract group of "ignorant" people believe would be quite a large computational problem. LOL.
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDusr View Post
Didn't seem too cryptic. Lot's of compartmentalization and private contracting that goes on, however.
Plausible deniability.

Quote:
NP-complete does seem to be an interesting area that both DNA and Quantum computing are being used to research.
NP-complete is not tractable because those advances only decrease the coefficient of O(n), meaning they can only decrease the computational order in a linear fashion, whereas NP-hard problems are exponentially difficult w.r.t input n.

Quote:
I imagine being "omnipresent" as you have characterized this abstract group of "ignorant" people believe would be quite a large computational problem. LOL.
I'll just stand by my education and contacts (who I may or may not have in certain places), and laugh mightily at folks who say they're right because "they just know the NSA can do it" but can't offer proof.
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Old Town Alexandria
14,495 posts, read 24,435,459 times
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LOL, They reap what they have sown.

10 years ago people lived quite well without disseminating all their info online.
Not everyone's a lemming anymore, how sad for the snoopers.
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Old Town Alexandria
14,495 posts, read 24,435,459 times
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lmfao. In Q Tel isn't superpower. Its just intrusive.
continue the disinfo however op if its your bread and butter. Live and let die, as fictional Mr. Ian Fleming wrote.
yawn
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:48 PM
 
8,481 posts, read 6,165,068 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
Plausible deniability.



NP-complete is not tractable because those advances only decrease the coefficient of O(n), meaning they can only decrease the computational order in a linear fashion, whereas NP-hard problems are exponentially difficult w.r.t input n.



I'll just stand by my education and contacts (who I may or may not have in certain places), and laugh mightily at folks who say they're right because "they just know the NSA can do it" but can't offer proof.
Sure PD is part of it. Corporate liability is everywhere and is an important part of any business model. Also seems to be commonly practiced to maximize IP and maintain the so-called edge.

Cyber security has been growing exponentially and seems to be planned to grow much larger still. Many revenue streams there.

Still an interesting area of study. (DNA and Quantum Computing)

Hmmm, ok. Laughing is a healthy practice. Adults especially need it.


Back to the main topic.

I expect these kind of issues are going to be more of a concern to them. Although, when publicly traded corps aren't as profitable this affects many people including the large amts of govt investment funds.

Without Def Con, the Feds Have a Hacker Recruitment Problem ...


quote:
Last week, organizers for the annual hacker confab Def Con politely requested that the feds sit out this year's conference, a move that will effectively deprive federal law enforcement and intelligence agencies of prime recruiting opportunities among the conference's 15,000+ talent pool of hackers, cyber security researchers, and corporate InfoSec experts.


DEF CON 20 By General Keith B Alexander Shared Values Shared Response - YouTube
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