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They don't know how to debate economics. Libertarians and conservatives have been the loudest voice in the economic dialogue for a good while. Progressives need to get back in the debate.
Progressives need to know that there are arguments for the a minimum wage. I'm not referring to the mainstream reasons we often hear. They have to do research and bring an economic argument that debunks all of the arguments libertarians/conservatives bring to the table on this topic.
Here's something liberals have to and must put in the forefront in the economic debate.
1. The US has no spending constraints. There's zero risk of default.
2. Yes, $15 dollars is above the market rate for flipping burgers, and so are six figure salaries of skilled professionals. Many in our skilled workforce have artificially inflated their earning potentials by barring international competition. The AMA(American Medical Association) have lobbied against importation of medical professionals for decades now.
3. There's absolutely no risk in implementing guaranteed income for all citizens. This is the only way poverty could be mitigated when there's excess labor.
1. the risk is in inflation, which has been lower then what most economists agree it should be at.
2. but its below the rate if minimum wage had tracked to productivity-as it had before 1970.
3. Theres always risk, but this is the only sane logical choice I see in the future. The real question to me is, when, and how much, how do we pay for it (short answer is taxes-which people like me will pay), and when. Theres a huge argument about this, but generally as automation replaces people I just dont see any other way.....Well I DO see another way, but it involves euthanizing a ton of people, and folks get all angry about that, call me worse then Hitler etc.....oh wait...no, that was from a discussion about raising taxes I think...
There are lots of arguments for and against, maybe have good support. The problem is that wingnuts like to dismiss arguments they don't like with hand waving, and portraying anyone who disagree as straw man caricatures that don't hold up in reality. As well as making broad unfounded statements that have no evidence support because how they feel about the statement is more important than if it is true.
I think the biggest problem with liberals is that they like to evaluate subtleties like economics in terms of facts and contingencies and empirical patterns, not black and white ideologies and platitudes. Conservatives are more doctrinaire in economic matters, and so their message is clearer. They typically don't square with the facts, but that never seems to slow them down.
What economists "agree" that inflation is lower than it should be? In an era of stagnant or declining real incomes which economists are advocating inflationary policies?
At a time when work force participation declines with each new release of unemployment figures, which economist wants to see inflation?
They don't know how to debate economics. Libertarians and conservatives have been the loudest voice in the economic dialogue for a good while. Progressives need to get back in the debate.
Progressives need to know that there are arguments for the a minimum wage. I'm not referring to the mainstream reasons we often hear. They have to do research and bring an economic argument that debunks all of the arguments libertarians/conservatives bring to the table on this topic.
Here's something liberals have to and must put in the forefront in the economic debate.
1. The US has no spending constraints. There's zero risk of default.
2. Yes, $15 dollars is above the market rate for flipping burgers, and so are six figure salaries of skilled professionals. Many in our skilled workforce have artificially inflated their earning potentials by barring international competition. The AMA(American Medical Association) have lobbied against importation of medical professionals for decades now.
3. There's absolutely no risk in implementing guaranteed income for all citizens. This is the only way poverty could be mitigated when there's excess labor.
Robert Reich makes very good argument. In fact, there are plenty of liberals out there that do.
There are lots of arguments for and against, maybe have good support. The problem is that wingnuts like to dismiss arguments they don't like with hand waving, and portraying anyone who disagree as straw man caricatures that don't hold up in reality. As well as making broad unfounded statements that have no evidence support because how they feel about the statement is more important than if it is true.
Paul Krugman is no idiot, but he is a political ideologue with weakened credibility for 1) often talking down his opponents in often in a hypocritical way and 2) changing positions on key stances precisely when the Democrat leader does. When he gets called out for doing either he justifies it as he is right now.
They don't know how to debate economics. Libertarians and conservatives have been the loudest voice in the economic dialogue for a good while. Progressives need to get back in the debate.
Liberals don't know how to debate anything. It isn't just economics. Liberals don't make arguments. They make accusations. Their answer to whether birth control should be provided without copays or not is to say anyone who disagrees has a war on women. Their answer to people who don't like Obama's administration is to say they are racist. Their answer to people who are against abortion is that they are religious zealots trying to control women. Their answer to people not liking Obamacare is that they want to deny healthcare. Their answer to people who think welfare needs to be reformed is that they hate poor people.
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Progressives need to know that there are arguments for the a minimum wage. I'm not referring to the mainstream reasons we often hear. They have to do research and bring an economic argument that debunks all of the arguments libertarians/conservatives bring to the table on this topic.
Conservatives are greedy and hate poor people. That's the answer to conservative arguments that labor should be treated like other markets where supply and demand will determine the correct wage based on a person's skillset.
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Here's something liberals have to and must put in the forefront in the economic debate.
1. The US has no spending constraints. There's zero risk of default.
I don't see how that's relevant.
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2. Yes, $15 dollars is above the market rate for flipping burgers, and so are six figure salaries of skilled professionals. Many in our skilled workforce have artificially inflated their earning potentials by barring international competition. The AMA(American Medical Association) have lobbied against importation of medical professionals for decades now.
So the solution to that is to remove the artificial restrictions, not to raise the minimum wage. You're saying an argument for artificially raising one person's wage above market value is that another person's wage has already been artificially raised above market value? That's trying to make a right out of two wrongs.
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3. There's absolutely no risk in implementing guaranteed income for all citizens. This is the only way poverty could be mitigated when there's excess labor.
No, it isn't the only way. You can lower taxes and lessen the regulatory burden on companies so that they can expand and create more jobs.
Liberals don't know how to debate anything. It isn't just economics. Liberals don't make arguments. They make accusations. Their answer to whether birth control should be provided without copays or not is to say anyone who disagrees has a war on women. Their answer to people who don't like Obama's administration is to say they are racist. Their answer to people who are against abortion is that they are religious zealots trying to control women. Their answer to people not liking Obamacare is that they want to deny healthcare. Their answer to people who think welfare needs to be reformed is that they hate poor people.
Conservatives are greedy and hate poor people. That's the answer to conservative arguments that labor should be treated like other markets where supply and demand will determine the correct wage based on a person's skillset.
I don't see how that's relevant.
So the solution to that is to remove the artificial restrictions, not to raise the minimum wage. You're saying an argument for artificially raising one person's wage above market value is that another person's wage has already been artificially raised above market value? That's trying to make a right out of two wrongs.
No, it isn't the only way. You can lower taxes and lessen the regulatory burden on companies so that they can expand and create more jobs.
Yes, if skilled professionals are allowed to artificially inflate their wages, so should low wage workers. There's nothing wrong with it. Supply and demand is much more complex than what we learn in Micro Economics. In fact, it's a false equilibrium. There's no natural law that dictates economic outcomes. Every aspect of the economy is artificially manipulated. Look at gas prices? They're not a result of oil constraints. In fact, oil extraction is much more efficient now than anytime before.
Lowering taxes does to prevent automation from replacing humans nor does it curtail the limited opportunities for willing workers.
I'm neither conservative or liberal; however, pretty much all of my friends that are educated, are liberals or centrists, while all but one of my friends that identify as being conservative are "uneducated." Debating economics with someone that is unable to do intermediate algebra is painful. I find liberals are typically better at coming to their own conclusions in regards to economics, while conservatives seem to be better at repeating what they hear. Overall, I find liberals to be more divers in their intelligence. There seems to be an equal number of stupid, average and smart people that identify as liberals; whereas, conservatives tend to be either really smart or really stupid.
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