Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So let me get this straight just because someone doesn't hold an education on paper means they are not smart and are to be treated like second class citizens? FYI, there are college grads having to take those jobs as there are no jobs available in their field at the time they got their degree. This is not a good excuse.
however, it was always my belief that a full time job is supposed to fund basic needs like housing, food, transport, healthcare etc,
That's the wrong belief and has nothing to do with economics. A job should pay what the market demands that it pay. If the pay is too low then the employees will move on, but if it is too high (artificially) then the company will cut hours or automate positions.
Quote:
After taxes you can't afford any of that on 7.25 an hour.
Actually you can and I have shown the math numerous times. Case in point, a house in Kansas will cost you $650/month for a 2/ bedroom.
Quote:
...but until they complete their education don't they deserve make a somewhat livable wage?
No, there is no such thing as "livable wage". The living wage I would need to work in NYC varies from what I would need in Atlanta, which varies from what I would need in Chicago, which varies from what I would need in Omaha, etc. A single person doesn't need as much income as a single person with kids in order to have the same quality of life, but people should not get raises for having kids or for lifestyle choices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmantra
Breed? What are they animals? Wow, you really need to get over yourself, not all fast food workers are popping out babies left and right. Some of them may have been laid off from better jobs that require higher skill sets or just pay higher, or their are just no jobs available in there particular market.
I'm not talking about displaced workers though. Most people will move on from FF jobs and the people with degrees can move to a different country, but the people that choose to work FF cannot complain about their wages and should not procreate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmantra
Most people aren't expecting to buy a Mercedes flipping burgers, they just want to be able to afford housing, food, healthcare, and transport
Want is the operative word here. People that choose to be burger flippers complain that they can't have the lifestyle they want. I take issue with that. The market will decide what a certain job will pay and if the pay is too low then the company suffers, if the pay is too high then the potential employee suffers.
I was just offered a job in DE and the pay is only $4K more than what I make in Chicago, but COL is higher so I turned it down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmantra
without relying on government subsidies.
Ignoring Obamacare, fast food workers won't get subsidies until they pop out a kid.
OP I totally agree, it disgusts me that people look down on those who make little, and even verge on hatred like "they don't deserve it" when it comes to minimum wage. I believe these people are people and should get better. I am all for a $15 minimum wage. The right wing(mostly) hate poor people and worship stupid ***** millionaires like Paris Hilton. They justify it as hurting business, but each time increasing the wage, shows business and economy is not hurt.
Awful that people are more concerned about business people and not common man.
It's almost as if people like to lump them in the same category as those collecting welfare, as bottom feeding scumbags, really irritates me to no end.
And not to mention many times some people do need welfare. Fast food workers collect money from the government since their wages are low, so why not increase the minimum wage?
That has little to do with the debate, there are crappy people in all professions, including the rich that you foolishly admire and worship. Heck there are awful doctors and police officers, why not discuss them?
And not to mention many times some people do need welfare. Fast food workers collect money from the government since their wages are low, so why not increase the minimum wage?
The poverty line will then adjust. In 2000 the FPL was $8,350 and the min wage would give you $10,712/yr. In 2013 the FPL is $11,490 and the min wage will give you $15,080.
A lot of people, have a superiority attitude about life and those around them. They want to feel superior to someone so they pick on people of a lower economic group than themselves and look down on them. They look down on employees of any business, that makes them feel superior.
They overlook the fact, that a lot of people make wages similar to Fast Food Workers. Bank Tellers, Clerks in Major High End Department Stores, Office Personnel in many small businesses, Farm Workers, etc., etc., etc.
They don't realize that as human beings, a lot of those they look down are far superior to themselves. They think that if you don't make more money than they do, you are not as good a person as they are.
Fact is, I have known a lot of people in the lower economic due to many things, that are far superior as people to the ones doing the looking down on them. A lot of them have their noses stuck so far up in the air, that they don't really know what is going on in the world around them.
When you suddenly seriously need help of some kind, the people on the lower economic scene will be willing to jump in and help people, while those with their noses in the air cannot.
I spent my life working with the public, from a furniture salesman in major quality furniture stores, to being a commercial real estate broker the last half my working life. Over the years, I worked with people of all economic classes. One thing that we used to joke about in the business world, if a couple came in looking to buy something, dressed in expensive clothing with their noses up in the air so high they were breathing rarefied air driving an expensive car, when you are on commission let someone else take care of them.
Reason: They will pick out the furniture, but when it came down being able to deliver it, their credit would be so bad you would have wasted an hour of your time selling them something that could not be delivered. The low income worker would not buy as much as they could not afford it, but the banks would give them credit.
I sold a lot of furniture for home in the late 50s to residents of what today is known as the second most expensive zip code in the country. When the furniture was delivered they had a great looking living room, but back in the bedrooms a awful lot of them had a mattress thrown on the floor and old fashioned apple boxes standing on lend for dressers. All show, so they could look down on the people living down below them. The funny thing is, I was just a lousy and lowly furniture salesman nor really worthy of their notice, but as I took their loan application so I know how much money they made, I learned I was actually making more money than they were.
The ones that are looking down on Fast Food Workers and thinking them are all stupid low class people, have not seen some of the surveys where a large share of the CEOs, CFOs, etc. in industry, all brag they started working as soon as they were old enough, and worked at Fast Food Restaurants as their first job. They are proud of doing so, as it gave them a chance, and taught them how to work, giving them a work ethic that carried them to their present position.
I don't "look down" on fast food workers, or anyone making a minimum wage. I live adjacent to a crumbling city with an awful economy and very low HS graduation rates (Flint, MI) and figure they are doing something right if they have a job. Even if it's such a low-paying job that they're eligible for benefits.
Very recently I had a brief conversation with a bagger at Kroger - minimum wage grocery store worker, young man. Turns out he was pre-med at UM-Flint and worked part-time at Kroger. Will no doubt end up making more than I ever will.
There will always be people that flip burgers (or at least until robotic burger-flippers become reliable and cheap enough to replace them). Some individuals, by cause of circumstances or lack of intelligence or whatever reason, can't gain further skill sets, at least not at the moment (and most of the time that involves money, which one would think would be more plentiful for them if minimum wages rose) Goods and services have increased in price, and the minimum wage has not kept pace. Most states have social welfare programs, which subsidize the low minimum wage by providing food, medical care, and (sometimes) cash to many of these workers.
And from there emerges the question: Who's going to fund them, the government or the customers?
I disagree with the $15 / hour, though. That would be way too much of a macroeconomic shock, and in addition, in most of the U.S. the cost of living is not so high. I would say it should be changed in increments, perhaps with a lower minimum for young workers (as in some countries) and small (<20-100) employers.
<snipped>
I disagree with the $15 / hour, though. That would be way too much of a macroeconomic shock, and in addition, in most of the U.S. the cost of living is not so high. I would say it should be changed in increments, perhaps with a lower minimum for young workers (as in some countries) and small (<20-100) employers.
I agree.
Last week Michigan Public Radio dishonestly (IMHO) profiled a minimum-wage Pizza Hut employee talking about how difficult it was to care for three kids as a single mom on minimum wage.
She probably isn't living large but I assure you she is getting plenty of government assistance since she has three kids and no fathers in the picture.
I understand some of you may have gotten an education to get where you are at, that still does not give you the right to view them as worth less.
Worth less or worthless?
I do view fast food workers as worth less compared to.. Say a proofreader who likely has a (close to) worthless degree in English...
I don't consider all the people doing it as worthless though.
I will mention here.. I'm not far removed from the fast food industry.. In fact, most of my dealings are with it. I have to write and support the POS systems used in them. And I will certainly say, I deal with some worthless people day in and day out. I've also dealt with people in fast food/restaurant/hospitality (Pick your term) that are VERY smart.. In good and bad ways.
DAILY i'm nailing people who attempted to steal money from a restaurant by attempting to 'trick' the POS system.. And.. A couple of times a year.. I manage to track down someone who successfully bypassed all the safeguards that we put in place to prevent them from doing it. We've sat around and talked about exactly how someone figured out that it could be done on multiple occasions.. Some of the time.. It was someone who had a pretty decent head on their shoulders to be able to figure out how to bypass and scheme the system.. Always kinda wonder if they have that much gumption to beat our security measures, just what the hell they're doing working there in the first place.
This kinda makes it sound like i'm saying everyone in fast food/restaurants are cheats and thieves.. Certainly not my intention.. Just like any other walk of life.. There's a percentage.
I know MANY people in IT who are making right at the $15/hr rate.. And, honestly, some of them deserve less than that.. But, should someone in IT be making the same or less than someone working at McDonalds? IT is a skill. I know people in manufacturing environments.. People who build BMWs are making $10-$11/hr to start.. Should they be making less than a fast food worker? If they do.. What happens then? McDonalds raises prices to offset labor, probably goes to more automation which means less workers? People building BMWs leave to work at McDonalds? BMW has to pay more for assembly workers.. Price of BMW goes up? Seems like a vicious cycle.
The $15/hr wage for fast food I believe started in NYC.. And.. I'd have far less of a problem with it if they said they wanted $15/hr IN NYC ONLY.. Lord knows.. It's expensive as crap up there. Do they deserve $15/hr in NYC? Don't know.. But I know I'd hate to even consider living in NYC on minimum wage. Does Joe Blow working at McDonalds in Wichita, KS deserve $15/hr? No. End of statement. But it seems like the $15/hr argument has been taken from the NYC workers to apply nationally, which is hurting the workers chances of getting that $15/hr in NYC.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
