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Old 12-14-2013, 02:18 AM
 
41,060 posts, read 23,267,141 times
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Any program that calls for the redistribution of wealth can be considered socialist. For example, the tax that the United States imposes on citizens to support the welfare system, which provides aid to financially unstable citizens, can be considered a socialist program. Healthcare systems like Medicare and Medicaid fall in the same category.

Another example of a socialist program is Canada's healthcare system. Proponents argue that it provides free healthcare to those who would otherwise be uninsured or underinsured. But the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Canada's free healthcare system often delays important medical procedures and treatments simply because it doesn't have the manpower, space and time to handle them. One highly publicized example of this untimely delay is the case of identical quadruplets born in Montana. The quadruplets had to be delivered in Great Falls because no hospital in the entirety of Canada, where their parents reside, could handle their delivery.

Socialist groups around the world continue to push for reform in their societies.
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Old 12-14-2013, 03:51 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,876 posts, read 14,134,931 times
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Like I said before, we should pass an amendment or law that forces all law abiding citizens to have and own a pistol and an AR-15, 20 standard capacity 30 round magazines and 1000 rounds of ammunition for each law abiding adult ages 18+ at all times in their homes.
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Old 12-14-2013, 03:54 AM
 
7,359 posts, read 5,081,702 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenching View Post
Like I said before, we should pass an amendment or law that forces all law abiding citizens to have and own a pistol and an AR-15, 20 standard capacity 30 round magazines and 1000 rounds of ammunition for each law abiding adult ages 18+ at all times in their homes.
That would be no more in keeping with the principle of freedom than Obamacare is in requiring people to purchase insurance whether they like it or not. The United States government should not be in the business of ordering people how to spend their own money.

One thing we constitutional conservatives can claim to have over liberals is principles. While I personally support gun rights and encourage any responsible citizen to be armed who wants to be armed, it is not the place of government to regulate that. I don't know whether you were being serious or sarcastic with your suggestion, but people who oppose overreach of the federal government need to oppose it even when it coincides with our own opinions. That means the government should not be telling gay people they can't get married, should not be telling workers they can't unionize in the private sector, should not be telling people they can't smoke marijuana, etc. The neocons who want to use the government to push the social conservative agenda need to be opposed just as much as the liberal progressives need to be opposed.
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Old 12-14-2013, 04:08 AM
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
15,085 posts, read 13,161,961 times
Reputation: 9766
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Any program that calls for the redistribution of wealth can be considered socialist. For example, the tax that the United States imposes on citizens to support the welfare system, which provides aid to financially unstable citizens, can be considered a socialist program. Healthcare systems like Medicare and Medicaid fall in the same category.

Another example of a socialist program is Canada's healthcare system. Proponents argue that it provides free healthcare to those who would otherwise be uninsured or underinsured. But the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Canada's free healthcare system often delays important medical procedures and treatments simply because it doesn't have the manpower, space and time to handle them. One highly publicized example of this untimely delay is the case of identical quadruplets born in Montana. The quadruplets had to be delivered in Great Falls because no hospital in the entirety of Canada, where their parents reside, could handle their delivery.

Socialist groups around the world continue to push for reform in their societies.
Please don't lie.
The hospital where they were supposed to be delivered were perfectly capable of handling their delivery. All arrangements were in place, but there was an unexpected glut of unexpected and premature births at the time, and there weren't enough neonatal beds at the hospital.
Calgary woman delivers identical quadruplets

If we could handle delivering the Dionne quintuplets way back in 1934, we certainly can handle delivering four babies in 2013.
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Old 12-14-2013, 05:21 AM
 
Location: Somewhere Out West
2,287 posts, read 2,358,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weltschmerz View Post
Please don't lie.
The hospital where they were supposed to be delivered were perfectly capable of handling their delivery. All arrangements were in place, but there was an unexpected glut of unexpected and premature births at the time, and there weren't enough neonatal beds at the hospital.
Calgary woman delivers identical quadruplets

If we could handle delivering the Dionne quintuplets way back in 1934, we certainly can handle delivering four babies in 2013.
The lie started when he said Canada had a socialist health care system - it doesn't, it has a single payer or universal health care system.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Missouri
4,001 posts, read 3,419,588 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenching View Post
Like I said before, we should pass an amendment or law that forces all law abiding citizens to have and own a pistol and an AR-15, 20 standard capacity 30 round magazines and 1000 rounds of ammunition for each law abiding adult ages 18+ at all times in their homes.

"We patriots command you to be free.... or else!"
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Old 12-14-2013, 08:10 AM
 
31,370 posts, read 34,508,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Any program that calls for the redistribution of wealth can be considered socialist.
Only if one is abjectly ignorant of what socialism is, which by definition is WORKER OWNERSHIP of the MEANS of PRODUCTION!

The term you are desperately in need of is WELFARE CAPITALISM!

They are two different concepts completely.

Conceptually, in a socialist society, there is no need to "re-distribute" since the original distribution is fair and equitable to begin with. Welfare capitalism on the other hand understands the inefficiencies of capitalism and in order to take care of those who are left out of the fair and equitable distribution of wealth are provided for so that they don't storm the bloody Bastille, if you get my meaning which I doubt.

Instead of clogging up bandwidth with ignorant rantings take time out and pick up a freaking book (you might even find them on line) on the philosophy of socialism from Robert Owen to Michael Harrington. Then look up the concept of welfare capitalism and then come back and express an INFORMED opinion.
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Old 12-14-2013, 08:18 AM
 
6,893 posts, read 7,615,190 times
Reputation: 3803
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Any program that calls for the redistribution of wealth can be considered socialist. For example, the tax that the United States imposes on citizens to support the welfare system, which provides aid to financially unstable citizens, can be considered a socialist program. Healthcare systems like Medicare and Medicaid fall in the same category.

Another example of a socialist program is Canada's healthcare system. Proponents argue that it provides free healthcare to those who would otherwise be uninsured or underinsured. But the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Canada's free healthcare system often delays important medical procedures and treatments simply because it doesn't have the manpower, space and time to handle them. One highly publicized example of this untimely delay is the case of identical quadruplets born in Montana. The quadruplets had to be delivered in Great Falls because no hospital in the entirety of Canada, where their parents reside, could handle their delivery.

Socialist groups around the world continue to push for reform in their societies.
If you lived by yourself, living off the land in a tundra far from any town, could one be socialist? If you live in NYC, are you living in a socialist environment? If you are a member of a small tribe in a far flung island, are you living as a socialist? Another words, what is your interpretation of Socialist? Is it a form of government, is it particular program within a government? Are there any "free from socialism" governments out there?
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Old 12-14-2013, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Houston
27,003 posts, read 14,147,152 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Only if one is abjectly ignorant of what socialism is, which by definition is WORKER OWNERSHIP of the MEANS of PRODUCTION!

The term you are desperately in need of is WELFARE CAPITALISM!

They are two different concepts completely.

Conceptually, in a socialist society, there is no need to "re-distribute" since the original distribution is fair and equitable to begin with. Welfare capitalism on the other hand understands the inefficiencies of capitalism and in order to take care of those who are left out of the fair and equitable distribution of wealth are provided for so that they don't storm the bloody Bastille, if you get my meaning which I doubt.

Instead of clogging up bandwidth with ignorant rantings take time out and pick up a freaking book (you might even find them on line) on the philosophy of socialism from Robert Owen to Michael Harrington. Then look up the concept of welfare capitalism and then come back and express an INFORMED opinion.
Technically you are right. Technically, like Hayek, I am a liberal.
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Old 12-14-2013, 08:34 AM
 
6,331 posts, read 4,840,058 times
Reputation: 1640
taxes does not equal socialism and redistribution does not equal socialism

if you are going to go on political rants, do a little bit of research first.
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