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Old 12-28-2013, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,177,123 times
Reputation: 21743

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From another thread.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
OK, so in the past, when we had much higher tax rates on the wealthy, why was our economy so strong?
You really don't know, do you?

That question has been asked and answered at least 200x in the last 7 years.

I'm going to use an analogy and break it down in a language that everybody here can easily understand.

The Parable of 5 and One-Half Guys Named Moe
.

Once upon a time, there was a pond full of tasty fish. Four guys wanted to fish in this pond: Moe Whiteman, Moe Eastman, Moe Brownman, and Moe Blackman.

Moe Whiteman comes to the pond with his finely crafted fishing pole and his huge tackle-box filled to the brim with things to use when fishing. Moe Whiteman also owns the bait-stand. Moe Whiteman has everything he needs to fish, except competition, which he doesn't want, so that Moe Whiteman can catch all of the fish he needs to feed his family, plus extra fish to smoke, salt, dry or freeze for future use, plus even more extra fish to sell or trade for things that Moe Whiteman needs or wants.

Now comes Moe Eastman to the pond. His fishing pole isn't as well-crafted as Moe Whiteman's, and isn't always operational, but it works just fine. He has a smaller tackle-box, that isn't completely filled. Moe Eastman attempts to buy some bait from the bait-stand, but Moe Whiteman refuses to accept Moe Eastman's currency. Moe Eastman is forced to sell something out of his tackle-box to Moe Whiteman in order to get the currency that Moe Whiteman will accept. Because Moe Eastman is forced to sell every third fish he catches to the bait-stand at below-Market prices in order to get currency to buy future bait, Moe Eastman has only enough fish to feed his family, and on occasion, an extra fish to trade for the things Moe Eastman needs or wants.

Moe Brownman comes to the pond now. Moe Brownman has a stick instead of a fishing pole, no tackle-box, and no currency to buy bait from the bait-stand. Moe Whiteman fronts some money to Moe Brownman to buy bait and promises to give Moe Brownman the materials and know-how to make a better fishing pole, but demands that Moe Brownman give 9 out of every 10 fish he catches to Moe Whiteman. Over the days, weeks, months and years that follow, Moe Whiteman adamantly refuses to carry out his promise to provide the materials and know-how so that Moe Brownman can make a better fishing pole to catch more fish, on the basis that Moe Whiteman will be economically harmed. As a result of Moe Whiteman's total refusal to carry out his end of the bargain, Moe Brownman asks Moe Eastman for help. Moe Whiteman then tautologically argues that he refuses to provide the materials and teach Moe Brownman how to make a better fishing pole on the basis that Moe Brownman keeps asking Moe Eastman to provide the materials and know-how.....because Moe Whiteman refused to carry out his end of the bargain. When Moe Brownman isn't looking, Moe Whiteman steals some of his fish. Moe Brownman barely has enough fish to feed his family, and he never has any fish to trade for things he needs or wants.

After a while, Moe Blackman comes to the pond. Moe Blackman has no currency, no tackle-box and no fishing pole. He tries to catch fish using his bare hands. Every time Moe Eastman tries to help Moe Blackman, Moe Whiteman attacks Moe Blackman and drives Moe Eastman away from Moe Blackman's fishing spot. Moe Blackman's family starves a lot. Moe Whiteman, claiming to be a person of high moral and ethical standards imbued by a benevolent deity that Moe Whiteman and his family worship, has pity on Moe Blackman. Moe Whiteman convinces Moe Blackman that Moe Eastman is Satan, and that Moe Blackman absolutely positively without doubt needs fishing lures in order to catch more fish. Moe Whiteman sells Moe Blackman some fishing lures on credit, with the promise of giving Moe Blackman a tackle-box, a fishing pole, and the knowledge to use it. Moe Whiteman takes the few fish that Moe Blackman manages to catch, leaving him with nothing. Moe Whiteman reneges on his promise to provide a tackle-box, fishing pole and the know-how (as usual). Since Moe Blackman has no need for fishing lures without a fishing pole, Moe Blackman sells the fishing lures he bought on credit from Moe Whiteman back to the bait-stand owned by Moe Whiteman for bait, and then Moe Blackman's family eats the bait.

According to Moe Whiteman.......the World is Beautiful and Everything is Peachy.

[...many moons later....]

One day....

...enter Moe Ashun.


Moe Ashun shows up with two fishing poles, one for each arm. Even though Moe Ashun has two fishing poles, he is not a very good fisherman, catching only a few more fish with two poles than Moe Whiteman with one pole, but Moe Ashun is learning.

Moe Whiteman throws an infantile temper tantrum whining that if Moe Ashun uses two fishing poles, then Moe Eastman, Moe Brownman and Moe Blackman will want to use two fishing poles, and it will be total anarchy and subvert the natural order of things, uh, whatever that is.

While Moe Whiteman and Moe Ashun are arguing over fishing poles, Moe Eastman goes through a period of brutal self-introspection-gut-check-attitude-adjustment. Moe Eastman then opens up his own bait-stand, much to the chagrin of Moe Whiteman.

Moe Whiteman stands with jaw dropping on the floor aghast that Moe Brownman and Moe Blackman would would traitorously spurn him to buy bait from the Evil Satanic Moe Eastman. Even Moe Ashun is buying bait from Moe Eastman.

Although Moe Whiteman still successfully catches fish, he doesn't catch as much as he used to catch, due to the competition, and so Moe Whiteman has fewer fish to feed his thick family, store for future use, or trade for things he needs or wants.

Moe Eastman and Moe Ashun then join together to teach Moe Brownman. They give Moe Brownman the materials and the know-how to build a better fishing pole, and also give some fishing tips to Moe Brownman. Moe Ashun and Moe Eastman ask that for every 10 fish Moe Brownman catches, he gives 5 to them and keeps 5 for his family. Moe Brownman loves this arrangement. It is moral, ethical, fair and mutually beneficial for everyone.

Moe Whiteman protests. The number of fish he is catching is dwindling due to the increased competition, and now he has even fewer fish to feed his slovenly family, store for future use, or trade for things he needs or wants.

Then, one day, of all things, Moe Whiteman's brother, Moe Euroman just suddenly opens up his own bait-stand. Moe Whiteman screams at the traitorous bastard as Moe Euroman, Moe Eastman, Moe Brownman and Moe Ashun happily trade back and forth. Moe Whiteman is distraught. He still catches lots of fish. He has enough to feed his overweight family, but none to store for future use, and not so much to trade for things he needs or wants.

And so it continues until...

..horror of horrors....Moe Eastman, Moe Ashun and Moe Brownman have teamed up to help Moe Blackman. They tell Moe Blackman to stop fishing and instead to do other things that are important for the future to help Moe Blackman. They give Moe Blackman food in exchange for 50% of his fish in the future, and then help Moe Blackman build a better home for his family, build schools and hospitals for his family, and are now building a road going from Moe Blackman's home to the pond, allowing Moe Blackman to travel safely and easily from his new better home to the pond and back home.

Worse than that, Moe Eastman, Moe Ashun and Moe Brownman are a lot better at fishing now that they've had some practice. Moe Whiteman panics in spite of the fact that he has enough fish to feed his fat family, with enough fish left over to trade for at least some of the things that Moe Whiteman needs or wants.

Moe Whiteman is frightened to death. He continues to cling to the belief that there is a natural order of things, and that he is at the top of that order, while everyone else is beneath him, and that the whole purpose, function and raison d'etre for Moe Ashuh, Moe Blackman, Moe Brownman and Moe Eastman is to service him, and that Moe Euroman should always say "YES" to whatever it is that Moe Whiteman wants to do.

Moe Whiteman spies on his brother Moe Euroman; Moe Whiteman tries to sabotage everything that Moe Ashun, Moe Eastman and Moe Brownman tries to do; since Moe Whiteman knows that once Moe Ashun, Moe Eastman and Moe Brownman finish the road going from Moe Blackman's house to the pond, that Moe Whiteman will have even more competition at the pond.

Epilogue....2100 CE


Moe Whiteman has enough fish to feed is obese family, a little extra to store for future use, and a small amount to trade for other things, but Moe Whiteman is having difficulty distinguishing between "needs" and "wants" a lot of the time. Moe Ashun, Moe Blackman, Moe Brownman, Moe Eastman and Moe Euroman also have enough fish to feed their families, put away for bad times, and to trade for those things they need or want, doing a much better job of distinguishing between "needs" and "wants" and leading satisfying and fulfilling lives full.

Moe Whiteman moans: "This is an horrid, evil, satanic, terrible, nasty cruel world....a Hell on Earth. Life sucks. I wish we could go back to the Old Days."

The end...

Mircea
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Old 12-28-2013, 08:01 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,126 posts, read 16,167,528 times
Reputation: 28335
You forgot to add the part about how Mary Whiteman, Mary Eastman, Mary Brownman, and Mary Blackman decided that they would no longer be content to just cook fish, but now insisted on catching their own fish so they didn't have to be a virtual slave to Moe in order to ensure they can eat. We could go on and on with this little fable but the truth is that there have always, and will always, be haves and have-nots in the world. Euroman used to be Engleman, Frenchman, Polman, and what not - it isn't just about race. One has only to look at pre-exploration age history to understand that.
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Old 12-29-2013, 08:31 AM
 
15,096 posts, read 8,639,316 times
Reputation: 7444
Mircea, you often post some pretty goog stuff .... but that was painful to read... very painful.
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Old 12-29-2013, 10:37 AM
 
4,130 posts, read 4,462,376 times
Reputation: 3046
Wow, not only did that startlingly bizarre story not answer the question quoted...I am pretty sure it shows that the simple question was not even understood.
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Old 12-29-2013, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Flyover Country
26,211 posts, read 19,532,369 times
Reputation: 21679
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmeraldCityWanderer View Post
Wow, not only did that startlingly bizarre story not answer the question quoted...I am pretty sure it shows that the simple question was not even understood.
You read that nonsense? I admire your patience.
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:29 AM
 
Location: Free From The Oppressive State
30,261 posts, read 23,746,924 times
Reputation: 38659
At first, I was getting this all backwards. I was not understanding exactly who Mr. Whiteman represented, in the beginning. It wasn't until I read another thread, where you pointed out numbers from the tax brackets in the 60s that this all started to click.

NOW it is very clear who Mr. Whiteman is, and I get exactly what you are saying here. The bolded part about currency should have my first clue.

Too bad others can't take the time to read it, digest it, and try to understand it.
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Old 12-31-2013, 12:27 PM
 
13,303 posts, read 7,873,743 times
Reputation: 2144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
At first, I was getting this all backwards. I was not understanding exactly who Mr. Whiteman represented, in the beginning. It wasn't until I read another thread, where you pointed out numbers from the tax brackets in the 60s that this all started to click.

NOW it is very clear who Mr. Whiteman is, and I get exactly what you are saying here. The bolded part about currency should have my first clue.

Too bad others can't take the time to read it, digest it, and try to understand it.
It kept Detroit Cityers employed.

90 or 70 percent tax rate forced hiring as a deductible expense.

Most crimes then, as somewhat now, were tax avoidance (evasient) crimes.
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Old 12-31-2013, 03:12 PM
 
4,583 posts, read 3,410,316 times
Reputation: 2605
What happened to Moe Steinman?
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