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Old 12-22-2013, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Stasis
15,823 posts, read 12,461,965 times
Reputation: 8599

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
So please, stop saying Jesus was a socialist. It just isn't true.
The only people claiming Jesus was a "socialist" are right-wingers setting up a strawman about the left.
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Old 12-22-2013, 04:03 PM
 
18,801 posts, read 8,467,936 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpaw View Post
The only people claiming Jesus was a "socialist" are right-wingers setting up a strawman about the left.
Good show!
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Old 12-22-2013, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,356,787 times
Reputation: 7990
Quote:
Originally Posted by TempesT68 View Post
I gave you a mountain of verses and there are dozens more.
Jesus and god were considered leaders of all men, the high power, the highest of the high, up and beyond the government by a long shot. His words were to help the poor, the greed was evil, and those with wealth were to share with those that didn't, so all can appreciate life. This is the exact opposite of how today's supposed christian right think.
Ok, but you still didn't answer the question. How do you explain 'render unto Caesar?' You don't--what a surprise.

Jesus eschewed coercion in all forms, in fact he may have been the inventor of individualism and conservatism with his statement: "Ye must be born again," (John 3:7) which gave primacy to individual volition. Remember, in antiquity, slavery was universal, and collectivism was taken for granted. Individualism and liberty were far in the future. Jesus was planting the seed, though. Dare I say it? Jesus was the original Tea Partier. And for the record, I am a persuaded atheist.
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Old 12-22-2013, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
3,502 posts, read 3,134,181 times
Reputation: 2597
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamencoFreak View Post
Oh, really? I have never known any Christians that believed that.
Then that begs the question. Why do so many faith-based charities seek out funding from the government?
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Old 12-22-2013, 04:07 PM
 
10,875 posts, read 13,809,014 times
Reputation: 4896
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
Dare I say it? Jesus was the original Tea Partier.
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Old 12-22-2013, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
3,502 posts, read 3,134,181 times
Reputation: 2597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
No "contortion" required.

The passage does not say that rich people will not enter the Kingdom of God, only that it is difficult.

The only thing necessary to enter the kingdom of God is to acknowledge that one is a sinner and accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

Jesus was talking about the difficulty of one who is rich in the things of the world to be focused on the things of heaven.

Christians are to be "in the world but not of the world".

Paul wrote about stumbling blocks to not only the strength of ones own faith, but those that cause others to not receive the above gospel message.

Thus if in he above example, a person's wealth gets in the way of their faith or causes another to stumble, then it is best to dispose of that wealth in the interest of love of God and men(and women).

Nothing about it endorses socialism. The passages often used by liberals to justify socialism are the "feed the poor " and "heal the sick" verses, yet these were commands to individuals, and not an instruction for governments to operate such programs.

Interestingly enough, the same liberals who insist that there is a "separation between church and state" also like to paint Jesus as a socialist so as to add some legitimacy to their redistribution programs.

It doesn't fly. Jesus was not interested on politics or working of government, he came to help people in need, and to be the sacrifice necessary for salvation.

Romans 13 indicates that Christians ought to "submit to the governing authorities". In the United States, the government is the people, and the supreme law of the land is the U.S. Constitution.

The 10th Amendment states that "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people".

Thus, these federal redistribution programs are not constitutional, and are likewise not in accordance with Romans 13, as adherence to them is contradictory to submitting to the ultimate authority in this republic, the U.S. Constitution.

No matter how hard liberals try, they cannot make Jesus a socialist, nor try to say that the Bible advocates for such a system.
If Jesus advocates individual charity, why on earth do you believe he would have a problem with a charitable government as well?
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Old 12-22-2013, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,356,787 times
Reputation: 7990
Quote:
Originally Posted by quigboto View Post
If Jesus advocates individual charity, why on earth do you believe he would have a problem with a charitable government as well?
Easy. Individual charity is given of individual volition. "Charitable government" is "given" via coercion. You pay your taxes, and government doles it out. If you don't pay, an armed IRS shows up on your doorstep.
3 Businessmen Testify of Armed Raids by I.R.S. - NYTimes.com
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Old 12-22-2013, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Florida
76,975 posts, read 47,615,131 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
Jesus was at most a libertarian. And he probably tended towards anarchism.
Read Romans 13 if you think He was an anarchist.
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Old 12-22-2013, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Florida
76,975 posts, read 47,615,131 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpaw View Post
The only people claiming Jesus was a "socialist" are right-wingers setting up a strawman about the left.
Sure seems like some want to use Jesus as a tool to win political arguments.
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Old 12-22-2013, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Southern California
15,080 posts, read 20,470,374 times
Reputation: 10343
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamencoFreak View Post
Why Jesus was not a socialist
Jesus was an alien.

[spacey]
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