What is the middle class... and why is it going away? (premium, regular)
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Your answer to the arguement is simply way too low. Laffer and others has essentially demonstrated the most efficient point is higher. And my personal experience also disagrees with you.
What on earth? The Laffer curve is "how to raise the most money via taxation". I'm talking about the effect of taxes on decisions and motivation the two are NOT the same, however, the Laffer curve is a RESULT of what I'm talking about.
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At your age the only way you'd be in Medicare is with a disabiltiy.
Medicare takes OTHER PEOPLE's MONEY to pay for the patient's needs.
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My patients certainly get their money's worth. And the Medicare program has saved a great deal of money over the years investing in me as compared to other docs.
It doesn't "invest" in you or anyone else. It's an expense, paid for by the taxpayers.
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The money I and my businesses have put back in as Federal taxes have overwhelmingly cancelled out your contribution.
Not in the slightest.
You have never created a penny of wealth... the wealth used to pay for your services. It was all earned by people who create wealth, so it can be spent on your services.
??? You think UMC kids and poor kids in this country have equivalent educational and intellectual upbringings???
Opportunity based simply due to social status, time or geography can of course be dramatic. Through no fault of his own Bill Gates had all three.
Change the time to 10 years earlier, and there would be no opportunity like his.
If he was born in AZ, same time, same family, there may have been no similar opportunity for him.
Remove the social status, say Gates was born to a poor couple, and he may never have had his opportunity. And being born to a poor couple, more likely inheriting leeching, lazy and no-count genes... <LOL>
Those of you low-information "conservatives" - whose most common thread is taking delight at the plight, the poverty, of the workers low on the economic totem pole - continue to be your own worst enemies.
If you could only understand that it is YOU who elected Barack Obama....twice. The radical left loves you like their mother....because you are.
Those of you low-information "conservatives" - whose most common thread is taking delight at the plight, the poverty, of the workers low on the economic totem pole - continue to be your own worst enemies.
Like the honest lawyer, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and honest politicians... Don't exist.
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If you could only understand that it is YOU who elected Barack Obama....twice. The radical left loves you like their mother....because you are.
Accusing a non-existent demographic of electing Obama twice.... Is not a sign of great intelligence.
Good grief, there are so many confused people talking about this, who really don't have any idea what they mean when they mouth the platitudes... .so, let's try something that makes sense.
For a moment, let's make an assumption that you can't be any more "broke" than to have nothing - and by nothing, I mean nothing of any significant economic value. You can have clothes, even a cheap PC or tablet, a tv, and appliances, family keepsakes, etc, and it has a real value that approaches nothing. You could not sell it all in a rush sale and buy a car, a house, or pay rent for an extended period of time, etc.
So, let's say that if that's all you have, you have an economic worth of zero. You cannot get be worth less than that. Debts are obligations, but those can be discharged or remain unpaid - so, you can't be worth any less than nothing.
So, being worth nothing is poverty. But you have a job. So, you work at that menial job, and pays you $9.00 per hour, that's $1440 for 160 hour month. The home you live in (house, apartment, condo, mobile home... doens't matter) costs you $600 per month and you and your spouse consume the rest to eat, have clothes and heat and lights and water.
How much are you worth, economically? Still nothing.
Imagine your landlord agrees to sell you, on payments, your home. You make 600 dollar payments for 7 years and the apartment is yours. Now, what are you worth? My guesstimation? About $30,000. Now that you no longer pay rent, you can take your 1200 / mo (after taxes) and use what's left of it elsewhere. So, you begin to put that $600/mo into an investment. After 15 years of investing that money carefully, you are now worth about $250,000. Enough to start some pretty profitable businesses, or just keep saving for your future.
In 23 years, did you become middle class, or are you still in poverty? While your income would be, by all political standards, "poverty", you are, in fact, worth quite a bit. You became, despite a low income, "middle class". By living frugally, by judicious decisions, and by discipline and careful choices.
So why are so few blue collar people not middle class? It isn't the pay scale.
It's the fact that their house... they now pay 30 years of interest to buy a home that's overpriced by 2 to 20 times what they should, they pay all 600 a month in property and sales taxes instead of saving it. In that case, the state is 18,000 dollars richer... BUT you are 230,000 dollars poorer.
Where has the middle class gone? It has been taxed away, by taxing ownership. It's precisely that simple. The difference between the poor and middle class is not income, it is ownership and investment in ownership. And the difference between 30, 40, 50, 60 years ago, and today, is taxation.
In the 50's, the average person paid 2% of his income in federal income taxes. Property taxes were a little more, but not much. Limited availability of cheap loans kept the price of real estate from skyrocketing in most places. Thus, ownership was within reach of most who wanted. And once ownership was achieved, taxation of ownership was small and easily affordable.
Across the street from me is a house for sale. It's been for sale for 1.5 years. I live in a blue collar neighborhood. The payments would only be $750 / mo to own it. Except for the taxes. The taxes push the cost of ownership to 1100/mo and it goes up every other year, by quite a bit.
Where has the middle class gone? It is being taxed out of existence. Instead of owning, the middle class rents from either the state or the bank, or wealthy person, enriching them, but impoverishing himself.
Question answered.
Now what is your solution? More debt? Easier loans? It's worked so well up to now, hasn't it?
I will say amen to this post.We as older retiree's are o'k.We want to move back to Ct and have purchased a home.One problem is when I die all my retirement is gone,leaving wife on SS.our daughter and husband have worked 15 years at grocery store and income is hardly enough to live on.They trapped themselves
and have no way out due to age and skills.
Exactly what above poster is saying,if we left home to them they could not afford it,Ct does not have meaningful exemptions for seniors.We have $72,000 in exemptions after 22 years in FL.They do not consider SS as income,CT does and can tax it.
As I have said in other posts when we lived in CT in 1950's and earned $1.00 and bought first house at $1.50 per hour,20 per cent down, life was much more balanced,crazy today.
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Those of you low-information "conservatives" - whose most common thread is taking delight at the plight, the poverty, of the workers low on the economic totem pole - continue to be your own worst enemies.
If you could only understand that it is YOU who elected Barack Obama....twice. The radical left loves you like their mother....because you are.
Actually no one takes delight in anyone living in poverty. We just don't want the government to drag us into poverty too.
What on earth? The Laffer curve is "how to raise the most money via taxation". I'm talking about the effect of taxes on decisions and motivation the two are NOT the same, however, the Laffer curve is a RESULT of what I'm talking about.
If your 20% barrier was true the curve would be shifted to the left. I agree that taxes can reduce one's desire to gain further. But I disagree with your low level.
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Originally Posted by pnwmdk
Medicare takes OTHER PEOPLE's MONEY to pay for the patient's needs.
It doesn't "invest" in you or anyone else. It's an expense, paid for by the taxpayers.
Medicare does take some of my taxes, also other people's taxes, along with the patients premiums copays and deuctibles. Those and along with some money creation pays all the bills. And if Medicare saves money through my efficient care, that is a bonus to the program and taxpayers. It is a better return on money for the program and taxpayer.
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Originally Posted by pnwmdk
You have never created a penny of wealth... the wealth used to pay for your services. It was all earned by people who create wealth, so it can be spent on your services.
Before I was a doc I was a research chemist. And the research group of which I was a part formed the basis for some chemotherapies as well as early research with NMR, eventually evolving into the MRI machine. Some great value and wealth created through these entities.
Through my provision of medical services the last 40 years I have improved the health, happiness and livlihoods of many thousands of people. And through their longer and more productive lives, my input has been amplified. I have also invested in, built and run medical clinics and offices that have provided for the employment of many people. Through other investment in medical concerns, equipment and property developed businesses that have yielded profits while providing necessary ancillary medical services and more local employment. And other such profits reinvested in all sorts of other more typical and conventional nvestments and entities.
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