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This is what i gather the typical hard-line feminist attitude/opinion about strip clubs is:
Good if it's women exploiting men, bad if it's men exploiting women...
Basically, the hypocrisy of it is, they say that women should be able to wear whatever they want and that if men get all turned on it's their problem and they shouldn't be (of course I'm not saying it gives men the right to harass or molest let alone rape them), yet they have a problem with scantily clad women in men's mags or something. If women say they wear it for men's enjoyment they get all up in arms about it, yet if it's to 'empower' them it's fine. If women use their sex appeal to exploit men that's fine, and it's economic empowerment, yet at the same time isn't that feeding the same exploitative industry they're railing against?
They also blame men for the fact for the fact women work in pornography or prostitution, as if the women involved had no choice. Perhaps the women wanted to, perhaps they saw easy money in it? They were not forced or coerced by men, they decided to do so of their own free will. Plus exploitation goes both ways. You don't think those poor schmucks in strip clubs aren't being exploited for their money? Oh poor Jenna Jameson with her millions and her mansions, isn't she such a victim. Position them all as victims doesn't respect their own autonomy either.
I don't care what women wear or don't wear, but I'm sick of all the preachy feminists acting like it's men's fault (when they want to criticise it). You don't think women also objectify other women? Have you heard how obsessive women get over body image, and how much attention they pay to their own and others bodies? We should be blaming those stupid women's magazines that obsess about body image and weight loss...if anything the women in swimsuits portray a healthier body image than fashion models.
Basically this whole idea of victimhood portrays women as victims who are at the mercy of the 'patriarchy.' As if women can't help themselves. Feminism definitely HAS brought about positive changes for women in the past and now, but I feel some of them go too far. Some feminists, like some blacks, forever want to play the victim card to gain sympathy.
This is what i gather the typical hard-line feminist attitude/opinion about strip clubs is:
Good if it's women exploiting men, bad if it's men exploiting women...
Basically, the hypocrisy of it is, they say that women should be able to wear whatever they want and that if men get all turned on it's their problem and they shouldn't be (of course I'm not saying it gives men the right to harass or molest let alone rape them), yet they have a problem with scantily clad women in men's mags or something. If women say they wear it for men's enjoyment they get all up in arms about it, yet if it's to 'empower' them it's fine. If women use their sex appeal to exploit men that's fine, and it's economic empowerment, yet at the same time isn't that feeding the same exploitative industry they're railing against?
They also blame men for the fact for the fact women work in pornography or prostitution, as if the women involved had no choice. Perhaps the women wanted to, perhaps they saw easy money in it? They were not forced or coerced by men, they decided to do so of their own free will. Plus exploitation goes both ways. You don't think those poor schmucks in strip clubs aren't being exploited for their money? Oh poor Jenna Jameson with her millions and her mansions, isn't she such a victim. Position them all as victims doesn't respect their own autonomy either.
I don't care what women wear or don't wear, but I'm sick of all the preachy feminists acting like it's men's fault (when they want to criticise it). You don't think women also objectify other women? Have you heard how obsessive women get over body image, and how much attention they pay to their own and others bodies? We should be blaming those stupid women's magazines that obsess about body image and weight loss...if anything the women in swimsuits portray a healthier body image than fashion models.
Basically this whole idea of victimhood portrays women as victims who are at the mercy of the 'patriarchy.' As if women can't help themselves. Feminism definitely HAS brought about positive changes for women in the past and now, but I feel some of them go too far. Some feminists, like some blacks, forever want to play the victim card to gain sympathy.
This is what i gather the typical hard-line feminist attitude/opinion about strip clubs is:
Good if it's women exploiting men, bad if it's men exploiting women...
Basically, the hypocrisy of it is, they say that women should be able to wear whatever they want and that if men get all turned on it's their problem and they shouldn't be (of course I'm not saying it gives men the right to harass or molest let alone rape them), yet they have a problem with scantily clad women in men's mags or something. If women say they wear it for men's enjoyment they get all up in arms about it, yet if it's to 'empower' them it's fine. If women use their sex appeal to exploit men that's fine, and it's economic empowerment, yet at the same time isn't that feeding the same exploitative industry they're railing against?
They also blame men for the fact for the fact women work in pornography or prostitution, as if the women involved had no choice. Perhaps the women wanted to, perhaps they saw easy money in it? They were not forced or coerced by men, they decided to do so of their own free will. Plus exploitation goes both ways. You don't think those poor schmucks in strip clubs aren't being exploited for their money? Oh poor Jenna Jameson with her millions and her mansions, isn't she such a victim. Position them all as victims doesn't respect their own autonomy either.
I don't care what women wear or don't wear, but I'm sick of all the preachy feminists acting like it's men's fault (when they want to criticise it). You don't think women also objectify other women? Have you heard how obsessive women get over body image, and how much attention they pay to their own and others bodies? We should be blaming those stupid women's magazines that obsess about body image and weight loss...if anything the women in swimsuits portray a healthier body image than fashion models.
Basically this whole idea of victimhood portrays women as victims who are at the mercy of the 'patriarchy.' As if women can't help themselves. Feminism definitely HAS brought about positive changes for women in the past and now, but I feel some of them go too far. Some feminists, like some blacks, forever want to play the victim card to gain sympathy.
Every group has hypocrites in it, not all feminists are like that. I consider myself a feminist in the sense that I believe in equality for both genders. I do not care at all if a woman wants to go into porn, or pose for men's magazines, or whatever, as long as it was her choice.
All of the examples you cited are created by patriarchal objectification of women.
Women are not immune to objectifying themselves. It's part of an insidious, cultural, largely unconscious indoctrination that occurs in families, churches, schools, etc.
All of the examples you cited are created by patriarchal objectification of women.
Women are not immune to objectifying themselves. It's part of an insidious, cultural, largely unconscious indoctrination that occurs in families, churches, schools, etc.
I doubt that you can comprehend this, but as I said, the conditioning is mostly unconscious. It is not obvious how one becomes indoctrinated. You are obviously not interested in hearing about the process, which is quite insidious.
I am not going to argue with women haters. I just offered the point-of-view, in case anyone really cared about the specifics that were mentioned and how they came to be put in place.
This is what i gather the typical hard-line feminist attitude/opinion about strip clubs is:
Good if it's women exploiting men, bad if it's men exploiting women...
Basically, the hypocrisy of it is, they say that women should be able to wear whatever they want and that if men get all turned on it's their problem and they shouldn't be (of course I'm not saying it gives men the right to harass or molest let alone rape them), yet they have a problem with scantily clad women in men's mags or something. If women say they wear it for men's enjoyment they get all up in arms about it, yet if it's to 'empower' them it's fine. If women use their sex appeal to exploit men that's fine, and it's economic empowerment, yet at the same time isn't that feeding the same exploitative industry they're railing against?
They also blame men for the fact for the fact women work in pornography or prostitution, as if the women involved had no choice. Perhaps the women wanted to, perhaps they saw easy money in it? They were not forced or coerced by men, they decided to do so of their own free will. Plus exploitation goes both ways. You don't think those poor schmucks in strip clubs aren't being exploited for their money? Oh poor Jenna Jameson with her millions and her mansions, isn't she such a victim. Position them all as victims doesn't respect their own autonomy either.
I don't care what women wear or don't wear, but I'm sick of all the preachy feminists acting like it's men's fault (when they want to criticise it). You don't think women also objectify other women? Have you heard how obsessive women get over body image, and how much attention they pay to their own and others bodies? We should be blaming those stupid women's magazines that obsess about body image and weight loss...if anything the women in swimsuits portray a healthier body image than fashion models.
Basically this whole idea of victimhood portrays women as victims who are at the mercy of the 'patriarchy.' As if women can't help themselves. Feminism definitely HAS brought about positive changes for women in the past and now, but I feel some of them go too far. Some feminists, like some blacks, forever want to play the victim card to gain sympathy.
Oh, good grief! I'm a hard-line feminist. I have no problem with prostitution, mens' magazines, strip clubs or porn.
Way to paint every feminist with the same Brobdingnagian brush.
It's kind of like me calling every man a male chauvinist swine. I assume you'd have no problem with that?
I doubt that you can comprehend this, but as I said, the conditioning is mostly unconscious. It is not obvious how one becomes indoctrinated. You are obviously not interested in hearing about the process, which is quite insidious.
I am not going to argue with women haters. I just offered the point-of-view, in case anyone really cared about the specifics that were mentioned and how they came to be put in place.
Have a nice evening.
That's Ok - I doubt any logic, comprehension, or adult reasoning would come from it.
Oh, good grief! I'm a hard-line feminist. I have no problem with prostitution, mens' magazines, strip clubs or porn.
Way to paint every feminist with the same Brobdingnagian brush.
It's kind of like me calling every man a male chauvinist swine. I assume you'd have no problem with that?
Most feminist and women I've come across do have a problem with prostitution, men's magazines, strip clubs, and porn. Many of them want the benefits of being male, but non of the pitfalls. They want equality only when it benefits women, and support inequality only when it benefits women. It may not be all feminist, but it's most of them IMHO...
Last edited by DoniDanko; 12-28-2013 at 11:13 PM..
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