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Old 01-10-2014, 09:32 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 63,873,387 times
Reputation: 9383

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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
So raising minimum wage would have a direct effect on less than 5% of the workforce who are considered to be at the bottom of the workforce and this is somehow bad to increase it, but getting rid of it so those people could potentially be paid much less is somehow good.


Raising minimum wage to $15 an hour would have a direct impact on everyone who relies upon a check for their living..

Those making less than $15 an hour would see more money, while the value of that income becoems worth less

and those making less than $15 an hour would see less money, because again, the value of that income becomes worth less.

Why is this so difficult for some to understand? No surprise they always seem to be Obama voters...

 
Old 01-10-2014, 09:33 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 63,873,387 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
So if it cost 50 cents to make a loaf of bread and the amount of labor cost is rounded up to 50 cents and I sold it for 5 dollars, then I would have plenty of room for any minimum wage increase.
Who the fk buys $5 loaves of bread?

This is a prime example that you should NEVER enter into a business.. Or maybe you should so we can laugh at you when it fails in weeks 1 and 2 rather than years out like most.
 
Old 01-10-2014, 09:36 AM
 
13,764 posts, read 5,490,729 times
Reputation: 8470
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
So raising minimum wage would have a direct effect on less than 5% of the workforce who are considered to be at the bottom of the workforce and this is somehow bad to increase it, but getting rid of it so those people could potentially be paid much less is somehow good.
You really struggle with the concept here.

Unemployment for the un/low skilled employee is greatest near the average wage floor. Not the mandated wage floor, but the real wage floor businesses will pay to remain profitable, which is different for different markets, industries and occupations. If that wage floor is X, and I propose legislation that forces every employer in the nation to set their wage floor from anywhere between X*1.5 and X*2.0, I have now vastly increased the number of people whose value is below the mandated wage floor, and put another group at or near the mandated wage floor, thus increasing their likelihood of unemployment.

Do you not see this? If some number N employees is currently worth somewhere between $7.50 and $14.99 per hour, raising the federal mandated minimum wage to $15 per hour makes every single one of them unemployable, as their value is less than their compensation. If I pay you $10 per hour to do a thing because I make $10.50 from that labor (5% profit from your labor), and then get an order from the government that I must now pay you $12 or $15 for that activity that pays me $10.50 for you doing, then that activity is no longer profitable, thus I should seek to eliminate it.

If you ignore the market realities (which minimum wage laws do) and pick an arbitrary number because it sounds good politically (which minimum wage laws do), you don't just "help" some small percentage make a "little bit more", rather you hurt a much larger percentage who yesterday were profitable employees at $7.50-14.99 per hour, but today are no longer profitable.

Now that this has occurred, I have two things I can do, or a combo of those two - raise my prices (INFLATION) and/or reduce the number of employees (INCREASE UNEMPLOYMENT) so that the remaining ones can be profitable at this new wage floor I have been ordered to obey.

Do...you...get...it?

You aren't making 1% better off, you're making 10-20% worse off with unemployment, and 100% worse off with even slight inflation. I don't care if WalMart raises prices by 1 cent per item, the point is the price raise is inflation and was caused directly by some distant interloper figuring they had the cure to poverty figured out.
 
Old 01-10-2014, 09:39 AM
 
1,743 posts, read 1,652,275 times
Reputation: 808
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
How much do you save by baking your own bread? (52 ways to save money on a healthy diet)

Based on this link if you are making bread at home it is about a dollar a loaf, if you make it in a professional kitchen that is designed for bread making, then the cost of that loaf is much lower.
I can see you have never owned a business before from your ignorant posts. Do you have any idea how much commercial kitchen items cost ? Do you know how much gas/electric/water is? Do you have ANY idea how much rent costs with insurance and taxes? No you probably dont. Dont forget about the taxes that business pay , plus personal taxes. Employee pay. There is a lot of overhead in the food industry . I own Pizzeria in NJ , and when prices go up , it goes up for everyone.

You think since owning a business and having commercial products it is cheaper to run? There is a lot of money that needs to go into the business first and to make ends meet.

Prices in a business will go up since its a big chain effect.

The landlord will raise rent due to having to pay workers more money , now the tenants will raise prices due to the landlord raising the prices for the rent , PLUS now the tenant/business owner has to also come up with the extra money to pay his employees as well.

Example: Min wage $8 @ hour , Large Pizza costs 10 bucks. If we bring min wage to $16 @ hour then a Large pizza will now cost you 20 bucks.

If prices are not equally matched to go up , you will see how many business' will close up doors and this will now flush out the middle class completely .

Min wage is just that , for someone starting out , a stepping stone . You take that and climb up the ladder , we all have choices and the freedoms to do it. If you plan to live your life on min wage , well then your going to live that type of life min wage is designed for . Thats the problem here , people want more for free . You cant buy a 80k car for 30k because thats all you have.
 
Old 01-10-2014, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,014,376 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
You really struggle with the concept here.

Unemployment for the un/low skilled employee is greatest near the average wage floor. Not the mandated wage floor, but the real wage floor businesses will pay to remain profitable, which is different for different markets, industries and occupations. If that wage floor is X, and I propose legislation that forces every employer in the nation to set their wage floor from anywhere between X*1.5 and X*2.0, I have now vastly increased the number of people whose value is below the mandated wage floor, and put another group at or near the mandated wage floor, thus increasing their likelihood of unemployment.

Do you not see this? If some number N employees is currently worth somewhere between $7.50 and $14.99 per hour, raising the federal mandated minimum wage to $15 per hour makes every single one of them unemployable, as their value is less than their compensation. If I pay you $10 per hour to do a thing because I make $10.50 from that labor (5% profit from your labor), and then get an order from the government that I must now pay you $12 or $15 for that activity that pays me $10.50 for you doing, then that activity is no longer profitable, thus I should seek to eliminate it.

If you ignore the market realities (which minimum wage laws do) and pick an arbitrary number because it sounds good politically (which minimum wage laws do), you don't just "help" some small percentage make a "little bit more", rather you hurt a much larger percentage who yesterday were profitable employees at $7.50-14.99 per hour, but today are no longer profitable.

Now that this has occurred, I have two things I can do, or a combo of those two - raise my prices (INFLATION) and/or reduce the number of employees (INCREASE UNEMPLOYMENT) so that the remaining ones can be profitable at this new wage floor I have been ordered to obey.

Do...you...get...it?

You aren't making 1% better off, you're making 10-20% worse off with unemployment, and 100% worse off with even slight inflation. I don't care if WalMart raises prices by 1 cent per item, the point is the price raise is inflation and was caused directly by some distant interloper figuring they had the cure to poverty figured out.
So what is the average wage floor set at?
 
Old 01-10-2014, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,014,376 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by aedubber View Post
I can see you have never owned a business before from your ignorant posts. Do you have any idea how much commercial kitchen items cost ? Do you know how much gas/electric/water is? Do you have ANY idea how much rent costs with insurance and taxes? No you probably dont. Dont forget about the taxes that business pay , plus personal taxes. Employee pay. There is a lot of overhead in the food industry . I own Pizzeria in NJ , and when prices go up , it goes up for everyone.

You think since owning a business and having commercial products it is cheaper to run? There is a lot of money that needs to go into the business first and to make ends meet.

Prices in a business will go up since its a big chain effect.

The landlord will raise rent due to having to pay workers more money , now the tenants will raise prices due to the landlord raising the prices for the rent , PLUS now the tenant/business owner has to also come up with the extra money to pay his employees as well.

Example: Min wage $8 @ hour , Large Pizza costs 10 bucks. If we bring min wage to $16 @ hour then a Large pizza will now cost you 20 bucks.

If prices are not equally matched to go up , you will see how many business' will close up doors and this will now flush out the middle class completely .

Min wage is just that , for someone starting out , a stepping stone . You take that and climb up the ladder , we all have choices and the freedoms to do it. If you plan to live your life on min wage , well then your going to live that type of life min wage is designed for . Thats the problem here , people want more for free . You cant buy a 80k car for 30k because thats all you have.
Most places charge $20 a pizza today, at least the good ones typically do.

When you started your business, did you budget in paying off all your commercial kitchen supplies the first year or did you budget over a series of years? Once paid off do you plan to reduce your prices because your expenses have gone down due to your supplies being paid off?
 
Old 01-10-2014, 10:35 AM
 
1,743 posts, read 1,652,275 times
Reputation: 808
I was giving an example ... prices are made up for many different reasons . There is a math to it and any business owner knows the numbers.

So your saying I should close my doors and lose all my money I put into the business to pay more into minimum wage? I have a lot at risk building up the business. If I were to keep prices the way they are and not fire anyone or cut hours down dramatically but pay a crazy minimum wage I would probably have to close my business. There is more costs then you can imagine in running a bbusiness. By the way in NJ most cheese pizzas sell for 12-13 bucks a pizza not 20.
 
Old 01-10-2014, 10:37 AM
 
14,879 posts, read 8,491,491 times
Reputation: 7312
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt1984 View Post
Yes because I am not selfish and I can actually be happy for other people instead of being childish and having a tantrum and saying no fair. Do you realize that part of economics is studying business models and how business work? Just because you never experienced something does not mean you know nothing about it.
Matt, it's all well and good to be compassionate toward your fellow Americans, and that is a good thing. But you have to understand the problem before you can fix the problem ... compassion isn't enough, because reality is often harsh and cold and not compassionate.

The problem is much more complex than the minimum wage being too low, so raising it will not just not fix the problem, but will indeed make the real problem worse. You don't want to make things worse do you? That wouldn't be very compassionate, would it?

Minimum wage jobs were never "liveable wage" jobs. These types of jobs were entry level, and menial labor jobs, not intended to be career jobs. Sweeping floors, bagging groceries, and bussing tables are not career positions. Jack those wages up by law, and many of them will just go away. And that just adds to the real problem we have .... there are too few jobs for the many people unemployed, or under employed, who are looking for jobs. When this happens, people out of desparation will take any job they can find, including those low paying jobs.

The solution is spurring economic growth which creates higher paying jobs ... career type jobs, and not raising the pay of bussboys to that of skilled labor. All that will do is reduce the numbers of bussboy jobs, and increasing the amount of work that the lucky ones who kept their jobs will have to do in order to take up the slack.
 
Old 01-10-2014, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,014,376 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by aedubber View Post
I was giving an example ... prices are made up for many different reasons . There is a math to it and any business owner knows the numbers.

So your saying I should close my doors and lose all my money I put into the business to pay more into minimum wage? I have a lot at risk building up the business. If I were to keep prices the way they are and not fire anyone or cut hours down dramatically but pay a crazy minimum wage I would probably have to close my business. There is more costs then you can imagine in running a bbusiness. By the way in NJ most cheese pizzas sell for 12-13 bucks a pizza not 20.
So I see you can only afford to pay your employees minimum wage.

Also, I will never understand the northeast obsession with greasy cheese pizza, it is just gross.
 
Old 01-10-2014, 10:42 AM
 
1,743 posts, read 1,652,275 times
Reputation: 808
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
So I see you can only afford to pay your employees minimum wage.

Also, I will never understand the northeast obsession with greasy cheese pizza, it is just gross.
No I can afford more but why dig into my pockets .. This just shows your ignorance and lack of business ethics . Sure buy into my business with 100k and we split profits. I have the luxury of making money since I invested a big risk and time into. I work 5-6 days a week 13 hours a day. Get an education or work 2 jobs to make a living, not my problem .
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