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Old 01-06-2014, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Oceania
8,610 posts, read 7,888,561 times
Reputation: 8318

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSloan View Post
Fair enough

In response to your other post, not all gun owners are trained properly. Hence the reason why my safety is concerned when too many citizens are armed.
This is called collateral damage.
There are more owners/drivers of automobiles than owners of firearms prowling the streets of the nation.
Do you think all drivers are trained properly? More people are injured/killed due to auto accidents than can ever be attributed toward firearms. Why aren't people crying about that fact from the rooftops? Maybe because automobile crashes, nicotine and alcohol related deaths are run of the mill, old news and isn't going to ever change.

Let's face it...cars, cigarettes and alcohol are big commodities and death is big business.
Then again, so are firearms and they are legally protected.
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Old 01-06-2014, 08:58 AM
 
724 posts, read 592,967 times
Reputation: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_grimace View Post
I think the firearms debate is simple. You ban or restrict guns. Bad guys will have guns. You allow the sale of guns. Bad guys will have guns.

What's the difference? When you allow the sale of guns a lot of good guys will have guns too! Might make a bad guy think twice!
Nothing is that simple. That is the problem with every debate going on here, there isn't a simple answer. The world is infinitely complex, yet people try to make everything out like its either this or that. Its pure laziness to think that way, especially in this day and age of instant information.
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Old 01-06-2014, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Oceania
8,610 posts, read 7,888,561 times
Reputation: 8318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss View Post
Lately its the legal owners who have no idea how to handle, store or concequences of use.

Link to some references other than liberal shills.
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Old 01-06-2014, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Oceania
8,610 posts, read 7,888,561 times
Reputation: 8318
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet View Post
You think Obama cared about what is in the constitution?


Did I mention the POTUS in that post?
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Old 01-06-2014, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,795 posts, read 13,250,882 times
Reputation: 19952
Quote:
Originally Posted by armory View Post
Let's break it down to...the right to bear arms is an inalienable right and enumerated such in the US Constitution.

Article II (second amendment) to the US Constitution
Please explain why gun owners feel the Second Amendment is of massive importance and yet the gun community does not allow gun owners who diverge from the NRA talking points their First Amendment rights. I think this Nazi-like behavior is very telling in that it is not constitutional rights gun owners care about at all, but simply guns. The fact that they whined loudly about a duck show reality star (who has his own line of guns) being deprived of his right to free speech and yet banished a veteran gun journalist for his words speaks volumes regarding what the gun community and manufacturers really care about. I am well aware that any company may fire someone, but the response from the gun community and industry regarding Mr. Metcalf reveals massive hypocrisy and also that the gun community definitely has their own requirement of "political correctness".


Dick Metcalf Banished Guns & Ammos - Business Insider

Banished for Questioning the Gospel of Guns

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/05/bu...&rref=business
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Old 01-06-2014, 09:11 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
10,581 posts, read 9,779,270 times
Reputation: 4174
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_grimace View Post
Might make a bad guy think twice!
That's the most important fact of the entire debate.

The biggest advantage of a society where all law-abiding people can carry guns (even though most of them still won't), is that the bad guys will have to assume that somewhere in the crowd, there's a few people who DO have guns. And so he's a lot less likely to get away with his crime... and so he's less likely to try it in the first place.

The right to keep and bear arms isn't about blowing away bad guys. It's about preventing bad guys from doing their thing in the first place.
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Old 01-06-2014, 09:13 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
10,581 posts, read 9,779,270 times
Reputation: 4174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
the gun community does not allow gun owners who diverge from the NRA talking points their First Amendment rights.
When the gun-rights-haters start coming up with hysterical rants like this, you know they have lost the debate.


Quote:
I think this Nazi-like behavior
See above comment.
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Old 01-06-2014, 09:15 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
10,581 posts, read 9,779,270 times
Reputation: 4174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafo1981 View Post
Nothing is that simple. That is the problem with every debate going on here, there isn't a simple answer. The world is infinitely complex, yet people try to make everything out like its either this or that. Its pure laziness to think that way, especially in this day and age of instant information.
TRANSLATION: I can't refute what he pointed out, so I'll just post some vague denial, call it names, and hope somebody believes me anyway.
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Old 01-06-2014, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Oceania
8,610 posts, read 7,888,561 times
Reputation: 8318
[quote=DoniDanko;32893227]

The NRA has no power. Judges and voters do. The laws are the way they are now because of the Constitution and voters, and not the NRA.
[quote]

Judge and voters should not be used in the same sentence. Judges have no power compared to we, the people. The Constitution limits the power of government - the judicial is the least powerful of the 3 branches. The NRA would actually have more power as it is comprised of we, the people.
Laws are what they are because of a rogue government. Voters are apathetic and most shouldn't vote if they are going to continually push the blue buttons. The same can be said for too many pushing the red buttons. Read about how the candidates stand on the issues that concern you most.

Laws are the way they are because we don't question them.
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Old 01-06-2014, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Sector 001
15,945 posts, read 12,276,554 times
Reputation: 16109
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSloan View Post
Fair enough

In response to your other post, not all gun owners are trained properly. Hence the reason why my safety is concerned when too many citizens are armed.
This is called collateral damage.

There are a lot of cops that are not properly trained and a lot of citizens who practice with their firearms far more than cops, who might go to the shooting range only when their department makes them. Anyone with a conceal carry permit is generally going to be a responsible person. There are very few exceptions to this rule. Anyone who goes through the effort to go to a sheriff's office to fill out the form and pass, which means they have no felonies on their record, are unlikely to be threats to the peace of society.

They are far more likely to be the ones to pull out that gun to stop said bank robbery, or whatever crime might be going on. Admittedly there's still some racial bias here and cops in particular will give white CCW holders less hassle... this is just a fact of life because so many black males are involved in violent crimes as a percentage of their respective population, but that's a topic for another thread.
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