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This wasn't the point of the thread. The thread was to address whether or not we are OK with illegals taking white collar jobs instead of blue collar over the last 25 years, which I already said I am OK with. Obviously I wish there was immigration reform, but that wasn't what we are talking about. I want 100% open borders so that we have better competition for top talent. Obviously you disagree.
No the point of the thread was would the people of this country still not care about our borders being wide open If the jobs being taken were white collar jobs as well as the blue collar jobs these past 30 yrs. It seems that the attitude of the white collar workers is "well they are just taking jobs that american workers don't want". Lots of good middle class blue collar jobs are being lost every year and no one seems care. The point of this post is not immigration or borders. I specifically want to just talk about white collar attitude about lost blue collar jobs.
Laws refusing to give illegal immigrants jobs are insane. They do nothing but prevent economic growth so that American workers can be paid inflated wages, on a global scale. if a cheaper illegal alien took my job then that means I couldn't add enough value that I could justify what I was being paid
Are you so bad at your job that you can't prove you are worth your paycheck?
in many ways i agree, but on some level this is a struggle between labor vs. capital.
with H1B's (and to some extent illegal immigrants), we give employers too much authority to determine and/or enforce an individual's immigration status.
when immigration status is tied to a job, that artificially depresses domestic wages. Enabling a situation where workers will be deported if fired, is undercutting american wages.
IMO you have to let these people (PhD's or construction workers or whomever) be full-fledged legal americans first, and only then can you have a level playing field in terms of wages.
What would the mood of the open boarder crowd be if the flood of illegal workers were taking "white collar jobs" by hundreds of thousands for the past 25 yrs.? If white collar wages were being surpassed by this cheap labor would our borders still be wide open?
What would the mood of the open boarder crowd be if the flood of illegal workers had been taking government jobs by hundreds of thousands for the past 25 yrs.? If government wages were being surpassed by this cheap labor would our borders still be wide open?
What would the mood of the open boarder crowd be if the flood of illegal workers were taking "white collar jobs" by hundreds of thousands for the past 25 yrs.? If white collar wages were being surpassed by this cheap labor would our borders still be wide open?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperthetic
What would the mood of the open boarder crowd be if the flood of illegal workers had been taking government jobs by hundreds of thousands for the past 25 yrs.? If government wages were being surpassed by this cheap labor would our borders still be wide open?
Damned straight!
So the assumption is that by allowing employers to pick the best employee for the job, that we would be flooded. . .and prices would drop, salaries would fall, and everyone would work for peanuts.
That worst case scenario, isn't realistic. People in other countries (be it Asia or whatever) who want to work a white collar job must 1) learn english 2) compete at a school 3) travel to the United states 4) out perform other united states citizens 5) work for peanuts
Here is reality. . .
Employer hires best person for the job
Employer does better
Employer innovates/creates more jobs
more people get hired
I would have no qualms if we opened up the doors to white, blue, and no collar workers. I have no issue with feds and states hiring immigrants (as long as security isn't an issue. . .i.e. clearence maybe needed)
Because I think that the above influx will create more jobs, more opportunities, and better conditions for everyone.
And getting a job is easy for Americans. You just need to take advantage of living here and out-compete the person moving from another country. Should be no sweat if you have a ounce of initiative
Being lucky enough to be born in the United States shouldn't entitle you to preferential job treatment
You should be hired on what you DID and can do with your life
not on the things you have no control over (where you are born)
One cannot compare immigration of yesterday to today. Our population has grown immensely over time. We have a shortage of jobs, natural and social resources not to mention I don't want us to be packed in like sardines as India is all under the guise of cheap labor. One of the reasons we have legal immigration quotas is so that all of the above doesn't happen. It makes no sense to pile in every foreinger that wants to come here while their countries are being vacated. Illegals in particular need to seek changes and opportunities in their own countries because we are full up and they are taking jobs that should be for Americans and reducing our wages. Anyone who wants a race to the bottom for us to become just another third world country is anti-American a hell.
No the point of the thread was would the people of this country still not care about our borders being wide open If the jobs being taken were white collar jobs as well as the blue collar jobs these past 30 yrs. It seems that the attitude of the white collar workers is "well they are just taking jobs that american workers don't want". Lots of good middle class blue collar jobs are being lost every year and no one seems care. The point of this post is not immigration or borders. I specifically want to just talk about white collar attitude about lost blue collar jobs.
You still don't get it. If you are confidant enough about what you produce, Illegal labor won't bother you. The only way illegal labor will bother you (white or blue collar) is if you aren't good enough at your job to justify your wage. Middle class jobs are being lost to illegal labor because those Americans are too lazy to work harder to prove they are worth their wage.
Shame on them, and good to the illegals who work hard enough to prove they are worth what they earn.
The USA is full of spoiled folks who will never work. This country is a lot like Saudi Arabia in that fashion, too good to work, too good for menial jobs....even if that is the only thing they are qualified for.
So it does make a LOT of sense to me that blue and white collar employers want more and more illegals and foreigners to come in and take up the slack.
You still don't get it. If you are confidant enough about what you produce, Illegal labor won't bother you. The only way illegal labor will bother you (white or blue collar) is if you aren't good enough at your job to justify your wage. Middle class jobs are being lost to illegal labor because those Americans are too lazy to work harder to prove they are worth their wage.
Shame on them, and good to the illegals who work hard enough to prove they are worth what they earn.
If and only if all illegals are dropped from food stamp programs, kicked out of government housing, and start paying for their own health care and eduction costs AND all the unemployment handouts to citizens are ended so there isn't a choice to lay around getting free money while foreigners pour over the border to either get in on the government handouts or take all the jobs.
It's foolish to have an open border when we are a welfare state. We can't keep paying for it all.
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