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If you find it, please share the link. I find this article to be intriguing because it really does seem obvious that it is fake.
And again I have to ask, so what? I realize that the anti-vaccine movement's entire premise is based on opinion and zero science or facts, perhaps that's why you are preoccupied with this particular article? For the rest of us this article and those like it are merely anecdotal.
No vaccines for me,wife or kids. Never been healthier. Big medicine wants us sick so they can peddle more "life saving drugs" with us as their guinea pigs.
a 32 yr old ANTI VAX person who is attending john Hopkins, in a postdoctoral fellowship
he is an antivax ACTIVIST
He received his A.B. in anthropology from Brown University, A.M. in East Asian studies from Harvard University, and Ph.D. in history, anthropology, and science, technology and society from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
yep the classic APPEAAL TO AUTHORITY of the conspiracy nuts....ooooohhh a 'scientist doctor' from 'john hopkins'
For those of you who don’t know anything about scientific research (that would be every vaccine denier I’ve met), a post-doctoral fellow is not on the faculty. Yes, he’s at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, but he does not practice medicine, nor does he do any clinical research. He is not a faculty member, and, except for guest lecturing, does not teach medical or graduate students.
As a post-doc, he is doing research which extends from his Ph.D. research at the MIT. Moreover, he doesn’t have a science research background, it appears that his background is in the history of science, a fine field of much interest to many real scientists, but it isn’t hard science, that is developing a hypothesis based upon observations, then doing research, and finally publishing it. On the scale of educational background, Doshi would not qualify as a “scientist”, but people can claim whatever they want. As I’ve said, it’s evidence that matters. All of Doshi’s research are criticisms of vaccines, not based on his personal leadership in a clinical trial, but merely on his opinion. And he seems to enjoy attacking Big Pharma, a trite strawman argument.
No vaccines for me,wife or kids. Never been healthier. Big medicine wants us sick so they can peddle more "life saving drugs" with us as their guinea pigs.
The title of the article was "Growing up unvaccinated". She clearly was insinuating all kinds of things that are not true, playing on people's emotions and fears and defying logic in the process. If you honestly believe this was a genuine piece then I have no words for you.
It appears the only way you can deal with the essay is to call it a lie. OK. But there appears to be no one stepping forward to confirm anything in it is not true. Apparently there is an earlier version that was edited because of profanity. Do you have any evidence to confirm that the author did not have the illnesses she described?
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Healthy user effect
That does not work. Some of the people who are dying are otherwise healthy.
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Vitamin D, Handwashing and Elderberry have all been proven to be effective measures in preventing (handwashing) and fighting (elderberry and vitamin D) the flu.
Influenza vaccine is about 80% effective aginst A H1N1. Why not wash your hands, avoid crowds, and take the vaccine? Then you do not need the elderberry and vitamin D because you do not get sick. Actually, would you care to tell us what makes you so concerned about the flu vaccine? What is it you are so afraid of?
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BTW, Lydia did not have complications from the flu last year. She had gotten the vaccine last year and got the flu anyway, that is why she didn't bother getting the vaccine again this year. That is what your link says. I don't know why you changed it to her having a history of a reaction. ?
I stand corrected. That was on a different web site. However, she was not vaccinated and otherwise healthy. She died.
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Alice Jones was given "bags of medicine" and sent home from the ER. What was she taking? Could her medications have contributed to her seizures?
She had influenza. Her lungs failed. Without oxygen to her brain, she had seizures and died. The lung failure in fatal cases happens swiftly. Some people die before they get to the hospital.
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Does anyone else find it weird that all three of these families have set up gofundme sites?
No. They have medical expenses and funerals to pay for. Before the internet, there would have been collections at businesses, churches, and from friends and relatives to help families like these.
Lydia's parents are unemployed (and have another child in the hospital with flu). Alice Jones had just gone to work so her husband could go to college. Her husband now has no income.
What I find weird is that you cannot understand how serious an illness influenza is.
The first article deals with that guy Doshi who does not have a science degree. The source is also questionable. The anti-vax people always call him a "scientist". He is above his pay grade with this stuff. I see that's where your term "healthy user effect" comes from. I have never seen this in ANY professional literature.
The second article is from the fall of 2009. We didn't know as much about swine flu then as we do now. Also. . .
From the link: In the U.S., by contrast, our reliance on vaccination may have the opposite effect: breeding feelings of invulnerability, and leading some people to ignore simple measures like better-than-normal hygiene, staying away from those who are sick, and staying home when they feel ill. Likewise, our encouragement of early treatment with antiviral drugs will likely lead many people to show up at the hospital at first sniffle. “There’s no worse place to go than the hospital during flu season,” says Majumdar. Those who don’t have the flu are more likely to catch it there, and those who do will spread it around, he says. “But we don’t tell people this.”
All of which leaves open the question of what people should do when faced with a decision about whether to get themselves and their families vaccinated. There is little immediate danger from getting a seasonal flu shot, aside from a sore arm and mild flu-like symptoms. The safety of the swine flu vaccine remains to be seen. In the absence of better evidence, vaccines and antivirals must be viewed as only partial and uncertain defenses against the flu. And they may be mere talismans. By being afraid to do the proper studies now, we may be condemning ourselves to using treatments based on illusion and faith rather than sound science.
That first line is from the Anti-vax Bible. It's also conjecture. The entire first paragraph is conjecture, except for the quote by Majumdar (a doctor?).
I agree with the parts of the second paragraph that I bolded. The rest shows a lack of knowledge or understanding of how vaccines are developed and tested. Of course, the authors are not scientists.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 01-10-2014 at 05:47 PM..
a 32 yr old ANTI VAX person who is attending john Hopkins, in a postdoctoral fellowship
he is an antivax ACTIVIST
He received his A.B. in anthropology from Brown University, A.M. in East Asian studies from Harvard University, and Ph.D. in history, anthropology, and science, technology and society from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
yep the classic APPEAAL TO AUTHORITY of the conspiracy nuts....ooooohhh a 'scientist doctor' from 'john hopkins'
For those of you who don’t know anything about scientific research (that would be every vaccine denier I’ve met), a post-doctoral fellow is not on the faculty. Yes, he’s at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, but he does not practice medicine, nor does he do any clinical research. He is not a faculty member, and, except for guest lecturing, does not teach medical or graduate students.
As a post-doc, he is doing research which extends from his Ph.D. research at the MIT. Moreover, he doesn’t have a science research background, it appears that his background is in the history of science, a fine field of much interest to many real scientists, but it isn’t hard science, that is developing a hypothesis based upon observations, then doing research, and finally publishing it. On the scale of educational background, Doshi would not qualify as a “scientist”, but people can claim whatever they want. As I’ve said, it’s evidence that matters. All of Doshi’s research are criticisms of vaccines, not based on his personal leadership in a clinical trial, but merely on his opinion. And he seems to enjoy attacking Big Pharma, a trite strawman argument.
Activist seems a subjective label. Does he claim this?
His background was already brought up in this very thread. The appeal to authority is everywhere so is conflict of interest. Far more so on the govt and research side though.
The second leans heavily on the idea that most influenza fatalities are in the elderly. This year that is not true. A H1N1 is hitting young and middle aged folks hardest.
Apparently what Dr. Jefferson has written in scientific articles is not what he tells journalists.
By the way, both articles are from 2009. The Atlantic article was not written by scientists, you will note. You call the essay by Parker sensationalistic, but apparently you think this one is fine.
The actual effectiveness of the A H1N1 vaccine is pretty high. This article actually shows protection from vaccine given in fall of 2009 extending into the 2010-2011 flu season, particularly for children:
We stopped vaccinating years ago. Eventually people will figure it out.
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