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THIS is what happens when your society values hard work, savings and investment over gimme, gimme, gimme and credit cards!
When you put Big Oil under a state monopoly, (Norway's Statoil Co), the electric power utilities like (Norsk Hydro) also government controled , the Air lines (SAS is hointly owned by Norway, Sweden and Denmark governments ) and then put all the profits in a state controled Sovereign Wealth fund you might be very well off like the people of Norway. This is SOCIALISM at its very BEST. AMERCANS might also be very well off if we nationalized BIg Oil and Gas (USAEnergy) , all public utilities (USAElectric) etc ) , all freight rail (AmeriRail likje Germany's ( DB) or Japan's Japan National Railroad JNR) ) and all our airlines ( USAirline) and then put the wealth they create in a United States Wealth Trust instead of letting go into the hands of our 1% Oligarchy. Think about it all we have to do is cast off our chains and lose our fear of Karl Marx. Just like our freinds in Scandinavia.
Now what if we Nationalized (The Bank of America) and made it like its Chinese socialist counterpart (The Bank of China).
Comparing Tax Rates in the U.S. and Norway | Inc.com
So, how much higher are taxes in Norway? We looked at Davor Sutija's 2009 income tax return—available, like all tax returns in Norway, on the Internet—and calculated a rough estimate for what he would have paid if he lived in the U.S. The CEO of Oslo-based Thinfilm isn't rich enough to be touched by Norway's 1.1 percent wealth tax, but he still paid far more in taxes in Norway than he would have in America, even if he lived in a high-tax state like Massachusetts. Leonard Levine, a C.P.A. in Boca Raton, Florida, and Martin Wikborg, a tax attorney in Ernst & Young's Oslo office, helped us with the calculations.
And I'm sure Inc.com does a good job, and are exact in their comparison. However, on one hand we have an article from a magazine. And on the other, the statistics of Norways official statistics authority, the Norwegian IRS tax calculations and the tax returns of everyone in Norway. One of these hands are fuller than the other.
Also, my personal experience. And I cannot help but notice a few things that are not on my old wage slips there. Lets look at it, shall we?
First of all, it set to favor US tax rates. No-one is going to get a wage of 534 000 $. They're going to get stock options etc. Even Statistics Norway noted that this is so rare as to be nearly unknown.
The second thing that leaps out is this "Income tax, flat rate $ 140 000". Thats not how taxes work. You pay no tax at all off the first x amount, then about 9 % off the next y, etc. So just doing 28 % flat rate is wrong.
The third issue (and I did actuall check that) is, no deductions have been applied here. No children, no other dependents, no travel, no loaction, no mortgage, no debts, no expenses. And Norway is a high-deductions country.
So what I am taking from that is basically this "You can manage to achieve a tax rate of 44 % if you deliberatly steer clear of every possible deduction and set up your remuneration in a US-style way that gives you the maximum tax disadvantage possible." Of course, thats a pretty inconvenient way to live, so it'd be easier to just call the tax office and say you wanted to pay more tax.
Its not a realistic comparison and the tax lists bear that out. The number of people paying that sort of tax is minute. If you want a realistic comparison, compare the range where remuneration is in the form of wages for someone with a realistic life.
You'll find that taxes in Norway are slightly higher than a high-tax US state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwruckman
When you put Big Oil under a state monopoly, (Norway's Statoil Co), the electric power utilities like (Norsk Hydro) also government controled , the Air lines (SAS is hointly owned by Norway, Sweden and Denmark governments ) and then put all the profits in a state controled Sovereign Wealth fund you might be very well off like the people of Norway.
None of those are monopolies, nationalized or contribute to the oil fund.
They are all part owned by the Norwegian government, whom you'll notice in the article had probelms finding places to put the excess money inside Norway without ending up owning too much stuff.
I already posted the numbers. Effective rate in Norway = 44% and in Florida = 28%. The VAT is another huge expence in Norway. If you like low taxes DO NOT move to Norway, move to Florida.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
That really doesn't answer the question at all. Do you think the left has cut the taxes too much? Perhaps you should look into who cut the taxes.
What you call the the "punishment" of the rich, the rich around the world call "tax haven". Yes, many rich people move to US because our taxes seem like a tax haven compared to the rest of the world.
PS I find it odd that on the same thread you admire the socialist cradle to grave welfare system in Norway, while calling the more capitalist system in US too far left, and you call our taxes too high, while in Norway taxes are very high even for European standards
I was comparing Norway with other European countries.
I don't know.....the claim was $32 while the reality is $10.
That is for one menu. They had two. I was referring to the difference between Norway and Denmark. I bet most Americans think of Scandinavia as one entity. I do not blame them.
So if everyone is paying up then how could you call that a gimme culture?
This is really not all that complicated.
If you're saying everyone in Norway is paying into their safety net, then that's also true for America. They have a progressive income tax system (like America) w/ deductions (like America) that can reduce their tax bill to an effective rate of 0% (like America).
In addition, they pay additional taxes on everyday items that also goes into funding various safety nets (like America).
If you're saying America has a "gimme" culture, then so does Norway. But then you did change your argument to Norway has a "gimme" culture b/c they pay for it (which America does too).
And I'm sure Inc.com does a good job, and are exact in their comparison. However, on one hand we have an article from a magazine. And on the other, the statistics of Norways official statistics authority, the Norwegian IRS tax calculations and the tax returns of everyone in Norway. One of these hands are fuller than the other.
Also, my personal experience. And I cannot help but notice a few things that are not on my old wage slips there. Lets look at it, shall we?
The article pulled it from the guys income tax return form with deductions etc. What can I say. When SS kicks in, it is 25%. It's a high tax country no matter how you look at it.
I posted the numbers earlier, and the 44% is the effective rate AFTER deductions. Same goes with the 28% effective rate for Florida. The 24% standard rate in Norway is just the begining. They throw in all kinds of additional taxes on top of that, and I posted those too earlier.
My 2012 tax return:
Gross income: $81,654
Interest income: $2,679
Income tax -total: $23,921
Net income: $60,412 (disposable income after all taxes)
Then you got VAT, car tax, petrol/gasoline tax, etc.
Yes, I've heard of people who claim their tax rate is 28%, and they "forget" to mention that on top of that they also pay 25% social security, and a host of other taxes.
The below is in Krona, where one Krona is 16 cents, so even you'll be hitting pretty high rates with modest incomes.
Yes, I've heard of people who claim their tax rate is 28%, and they "forget" to mention that on top of that they also pay 25% social security, and a host of other taxes.
The below is in Krona, where one Krona is 16 cents, so even you'll be hitting pretty high rates with modest incomes.
Social security? . I paid $23,921 in taxes in 2012. That was it. The tax return is electronic in Norway and the Norwegian IRS get data from your employer, bank, etc. I had nothing to deduct. I only approved the tax return online.
That's not even in Norway, it is in Denmark. A McDonalds happy meal in Denmark costs about $10.
Glad you know it's in Denmark. I figured most people know where Copenhagen is. The Scandinavian countries are similar in many ways and as has been stated many people refer to them collectively as Scandinavia.
At the time (couple decades ago) the conversion to dollars equaled $32.
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The Scandinavian countries are similar in many ways and as has been stated many people refer to them collectively as Scandinavia.
