Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-18-2014, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Itinerant
8,278 posts, read 6,240,327 times
Reputation: 6681

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceist View Post
The failure rate is only about 1 in a 1000 with today's techniques.
The issue is that the most successful techniques are irreversible, reversible vasectomy procedures are the least successful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceist View Post
The method (or something similar) could be refined and improved with more research. I think that all those men who whine about having to financially support their own children could sign up to be test subjects.
However not to be a smart ass, but, these aren't men who are whining about financially supporting children they want, these are people whining about financially supporting children they have no say in whether they will be born.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceist View Post
I understand the pain goes away in a few days and it's nothing compared to the pain of pregnancy/childbirth or side effects of the Pill etc for women.
Pregnancy/childbirth and the pill are all optional, your proposition is not optional

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceist View Post
Of course it would only really work if it was mandated by the government and all males had to have it done. People who want the government to make abortion illegal for women should have no problem with the government taking away men's rights over their own bodies.
You don't want to go there, equal protection, if you claim men must be given a vasectomy and have no right over their body, then the same applies to women. You've just successfully overturned legalized abortion in the US.

The issue is quite simple.

Women get to choose whether the pregnancy comes to term, just like currently.

Men get to choose whether they are involved. If they don't want to be provide a legal path where they can remove any legal obligation at the cost of severing any connection with their offspring. Clearly there would need to be punitive procedures for fraud, and irrevocable resumption of obligations (past, current and future) on changes of heart (with consent of the biological parent or legal parents). There also needs to be procedures that protect the mother and child from unwarranted attention from fathers who take that path (because they don't want the financial responsibility), and for the child (or their agent) to at their option find their biological father in future for personal or medical purposes.

I don't know why anyone would have much of a problem with that. It's not affecting womens choice to have children, or not have children at all. it does allow for men to legally remove responsibilities in cases where they disagree with the course set by the mother.
__________________
My mod posts will always be in red.
The Rules • Infractions & Deletions • Who's the moderator? • FAQ • What is a "Personal Attack" • What is "Trolling" • Guidelines for copyrighted material.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-18-2014, 08:52 PM
 
4,749 posts, read 4,304,304 times
Reputation: 4965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceist View Post
How about all males undergo reversible vasectomies after puberty, then when they want to have a child, they have to get a consenting female to sign a contract to have a child with them before they can have the vasectomy reversed.

That would reduce unwanted pregnancies, abortions, men whining about having to financially support their own children etc.

Here's the stats on success rates of vasectomy reversals. Based on this info, but the time a male is in his 30s, his chances of reproducing naturally will decline. He does have the option of freezing sperm, but that's really it.

Leads to overall pregnancy rates of greater than 50%.
Has the greatest chance of success within 3 years of the vasectomy.
Leads to pregnancy only about 30% of the time if the reversal is done 10 years after vasectomy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-18-2014, 08:54 PM
 
4,749 posts, read 4,304,304 times
Reputation: 4965
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
They are both equally responsible.

Why is that so hard to understand?
If both the mother and father are equally responsible, why is it that single moms can turn to public assistance for help?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-18-2014, 09:32 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,153,661 times
Reputation: 6550
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Yet when a woman wants to have an abortion anti-choice conservatives call her scum, so much for your double standard idea.
And the pro-choice liberals call anyone who says the woman should pay for the abortion herself rather than use tax dollars anti abortion, anti-womens rights and sexist.
Extremists from both sides are prone to labeling.
I for one do believe the female has the decided advantage in this argument. She is allowed to keep the child regardless of the father's wishes and he is forced to pay child support.
If the woman wants an abortion the father has no say in it. There is most definitely a double standard in play. If he is 50% responsible, and I agree that he is then he should have at least an equal say in the matter.
For the record I firmly believe in child support by the father and if he is too young and living with mom and dad then his parents should pony up.
The woman is stuck with an unwanted pregnancy. It is her body that is forever changed. That is a hefty price to pay. That said she also owns at least 50% of the whoops. It is her body and she should have done everything to prevent the unwanted pregnancy. Too often the woman gets a free pass on her end of the mistake.
Men you know the deal. If you don't want 18 to 21 years of child support at the very least use a condom. You know the courts are not going to care what your excuse or financial situation is. They won't care what this will do to your future. But then neither did you if you had unprotected sex.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-18-2014, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,153,661 times
Reputation: 6550
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkmani View Post
If both the mother and father are equally responsible, why is it that single moms can turn to public assistance for help?
Single dads can too if they have custody of the child.
They are equally responsible even if they aren't held equally accountable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-18-2014, 10:10 PM
 
2,234 posts, read 1,750,964 times
Reputation: 856
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Because all responsibility is is money, right?

Never mind that the fact (your favorite term) is that women do most of the child rearing in pretty much every set-up...married, unmarried, etc.
So we're just going to make things up, say I said it, and then you're going to argue against it now huh? Please quote me saying or implying that all responsibility is is money. Wow some people have problems reading...

What I said is that the ONLY time women and the court system believes that a father should be involved with his children 50%+ of the time is when money is being discuses. What I responded to was the fact that it was stated that men do not want to take care of there children, when the facts are that more women kills there unborn children so that they won't have to take care on it. More women who are order to pay for child support do not pay for it. More men pay more of there income to child support. I also brought up the fact that men are TRYING to get custody of there child, but never do. This was all in rebuttal to the accusation that men do not want to take care of their children.

Next, this is not the 1950 were women get to stay at home and men go to work. Just about ALL of the married families I know are a 2 income family and BOTH mom and dad are taking care of the children. In situations where the man and woman aren't together, the man usually does not have a chance in hell of getting more than 4 days a month unless the mother allows him to and agrees to let him have more.. Point being, that most fathers who aren't taking a more active role aren't doing so because the courts and mothers are getting in the way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-18-2014, 10:13 PM
 
2,234 posts, read 1,750,964 times
Reputation: 856
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Single dads can too if they have custody of the child.
They are equally responsible even if they aren't held equally accountable.
Okay but tell me how often do fathers get custody? Tell me in what way are fathers "equally responsible?"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-18-2014, 10:14 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,022,575 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoniDanko View Post
You're "singular" example is not how society as a whole would view the situation, and regardless of who gives birth, it's still half the males responsibility. There is a double started that, for your own white night reasons, you are pretending does not exist.
Who informed you that life was fair? Though it is much easier for a man to skip town and not have any responsibility with the baby.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-18-2014, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,022,575 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
And the pro-choice liberals call anyone who says the woman should pay for the abortion herself rather than use tax dollars anti abortion, anti-womens rights and sexist.
Extremists from both sides are prone to labeling.
I for one do believe the female has the decided advantage in this argument. She is allowed to keep the child regardless of the father's wishes and he is forced to pay child support.
If the woman wants an abortion the father has no say in it. There is most definitely a double standard in play. If he is 50% responsible, and I agree that he is then he should have at least an equal say in the matter.
For the record I firmly believe in child support by the father and if he is too young and living with mom and dad then his parents should pony up.
The woman is stuck with an unwanted pregnancy. It is her body that is forever changed. That is a hefty price to pay. That said she also owns at least 50% of the whoops. It is her body and she should have done everything to prevent the unwanted pregnancy. Too often the woman gets a free pass on her end of the mistake.
Men you know the deal. If you don't want 18 to 21 years of child support at the very least use a condom. You know the courts are not going to care what your excuse or financial situation is. They won't care what this will do to your future. But then neither did you if you had unprotected sex.
It isn't a 50/50 split, all the man contributes to making a baby is sperm, the man takes no part in the growing of a fetus. Also, tax dollars don't pay for abortions, nor should they unless it is a state that has approved using state tax dollars to help with abortions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-18-2014, 10:19 PM
 
2,234 posts, read 1,750,964 times
Reputation: 856
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Who informed you that life was fair? Though it is much easier for a man to skip town and not have any responsibility with the baby.
Who the hell cares what is easier for one sex to do or not? So are you going to sit his and say that because it's easier for a man to skip town, that we should punish a father AND his children when the father wants to be there? Why don't you apply that "life isn't fair" attitude when you're arguing for higher taxes for the rich to give welfare to the poor? Why is it " life isn't fair" for fathers and children, but you want things to be fair for someone who's sitting on their butts all day not working LOL.. The hypocrisy...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top