Honest discussion about gun control?

[Rick Roma]

Originally Posted by Sigequinox

Didn't the Heller Vs D.C. Supreme Court case clarify in it's decision that forcing a citizen to lock a gun in a safe or have a trigger lock etc on a gun was in violation of the second amendment?

So, with all the rights we have lost over the years, why should we give up one we maintained?

Keep violent criminals in prison and devote more grant money to psychological and mental health research. We can "redistribute" the money from the mooching class to some of our country's PhD's and MD's.

Apparently MA hasn't received that memo.

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/Gener...40/Section131L

[chucksnee]

Originally Posted by Max Sterling

Really dude, you're going to say Canada is more violent than the US without mentioning the statistics that matters most?

Murder rate in Canada 1.5 per 100,000. Murder rate in US 5.0 per 100,000.
Firearm homicide rate - 0.5 in Canada, 3.6 in US per 100,000

Last mass shooting in a public space in Canada? June 2012
Last mass shooting in a public space in US? Several days ago.

Tell me again how Canada is more violent and dangerous?? >_>

I'm sorry, did you not read the link...or do you think rape is not a violent crime?

Canada United States
Assualt: 2.3% Ranked 5th 1.2% Ranked 11th
Rape: 0.8% Ranked 8th 0.4% Ranked 13th

Now, you can say what you want....but if you don't beleive the numbers, that is not my fault, unless you are changing what the words violent and dangerous are....

[Max Sterling]

Originally Posted by chucksnee

I'm sorry, did you not read the link...or do you think rape is not a violent crime?

Canada United States
Assualt: 2.3% Ranked 5th 1.2% Ranked 11th
Rape: 0.8% Ranked 8th 0.4% Ranked 13th

Now, you can say what you want....but if you don't beleive the numbers, that is not my fault, unless you are changing what the words violent and dangerous are....

Here's the problem with your statistics. From the FBI statistics here:

FBI — Table 1

They have forcible rape and aggrevated assault and that's it.


Contrast that to Canadian crime statistics:

Table 6 Police-reported crime for selected offences, Canada, 2011 and 2012

As you can see there are 3 levels each for rape and assaults in degree of severity where level 1 is the least harmful and level 3 is the most harmful.

Now look at the numbers. For both rape and assaults the VAST MAJORITY of those crimes are LEVEL 1 the least severe.

Here are the definitions of sexual assault levels in Canada:

Sexual Abuse and Assault / Calgary Sexual Health

As you can see level 3 is the one where a person is actually harmed significantly.

Now look at the stats:
Level 3 - 130 incidents for a rate of 0 per 100,000
Level 2 - 369 incidents for a rate of 2 per 100k


Next look at assaults. According to here:

Trends in police-reported serious assaults

Level 1 assaults are the most common and refer to assaults that cause little to no physical harm to victims. Level 2 assaults, or assault with a weapon or causing bodily harm, are those that involve carrying, using or threatening to use a real or imitation weapon. These types of assault also include incidents that involve hurt or injury to a person that interferes with their health or comfort and is more than merely transient or trifling in nature. Level 3 assaults, also referred to as aggravated assaults, constitute those in which a victim is wounded, maimed, disfigured or whose life is endangered.

Only levels 2 and 3 are where someone is physically in any significant way harmed.
Level 3 - 3514 for a rate of 10 per 100k
Level 2 - 49,537 for a rate of 142 per 100k


Now look at the FBI statistics for rape and assaults and look at the Canadian statistics for rape and assault where someone is actually harmed and you can plainly see the overwhelming majority of recorded rapes and assaults in Canada involve little if any physical harm to the people involved.

So tell me again how is Canada more violent than the US when the vast majority of incidents in Canada don't involve any signifcant injury or death?

[tofur]

Originally Posted by alphamale

They don't have the large urban ghettos that we have....you know...where most gun violence takes place.

This is pretty much it, right here. You have to look at the countries your talking about in order to get an accurate picture of the statistics. America has a huge population and lots of urban ghettos, so it makes sense that a certain level of crime will be present.

Considering how many guns are in this country, our crime stats are unbelievably good. I believe concealed carry is mostly to blame. We saw it in Florida most notably, everyone thought that concealed carry was going to make FL become "the gunshine state", the modern wild west with crime and lawlessness abiding the land. The opposite happened. Criminals don't like getting shot, and they really don't like the fact that any civilian they try and prey on could blow them away. Guns are a great equalizer, it doesn't matter how old or weak you are, if you can aim a gun and squeeze a trigger your just as deadly as anyone else. Everyone becomes a hard target. So a lot of the criminals find another profession or get killed.

[brownbagg]

they was talking on the news about this last week, kid hurt in gun accident, kid are people under the age of 16, was less than 1%. more kid drowned in five gallon bucket than got hurt with guns, BUT kid over the age of 16 and was involved with gangs and crime was 87%. so what they are not telling you is yes a lot of youth was getting hurt with guns but it was while committing a criminal event.

so the people that are getting hurt are those that not going obey any law anyway