Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I don't like Obama, but I have to agree with encouraging people to go to college. Although not everyone's life is like mine. I don't know how to have the life I want without college, at least not yet.
Parents should be the ones encouraging either college or trade school, not the FedGov.
Student loans and grants have always been available.
Minorities have gone to college and have graduated and have gone on to good careers.
Obama acts like this is something new and the poor aren't getting money to go to college.
Here's some news for ya…
That HS graduate that got pushed through 12+ years of public schooling may not have EARNED all those promotions. At 16 they must be moved to HS regardless of their grades.
Some stay in HS for 6-7-8 years (age depends on the state) and they then "graduate" regardless.
They read at 8th grade level or lower and 5th grade Math.
How far do you think these types of students will get in college ?
Reality is that everyone is NOT a winner no matter how many times you keep chanting it.
That checkout girl needs to find better paying work and leave those p/t unskilled jobs for 16-21 year olds that need entry level jobs to get experience to move up themselves.
One problem we have created for ourselves is that when people in poverty on government programs earn $1 over eligibility they lose it all.
Earn $1 over income eligibility and one can lose over $1000 in federal assistance (SNAP, medicaid, free lunch in schools) is just the tip of the iceberg.
Now is that an incentive or disincentive to people working min wage jobs with no skills ?
here's the math to prove my point:
Family of 4 with one earner.
SNAP: $800
medicaid: $500 (lowest cost obamacare plan with subsidy used to put a dollar value to medicaid)
lunch: $100
That's $1400 the worker will lose if they go $1 over income eligibility.
We do not have any transition off of government welfare.
If it were $1 for $1 then I betcha more folks would look for better paying jobs.
These people cannot go from min wage to $30/hour can they ?
But that's the bar these welfare programs have set.
I can get behind what you said.. that seems logical and isn't just about cutting welfare and expecting them to magically find higher paying jobs.
However,this goes back to the OP's original question about encouraging college. In order to get a higher paying job it requires additional schooling beyond high school of either job training, which takes money, or an associates or bachelors degree.. which takes money. Simply wanting a higher paying job isn't going to magically make a person qualified for one or having one magically materialize.
THat is why so many are ending up in low paying jobs. You know how many people i met that are working minimum wage jobs because there arent any jobs in their field anymore. I know one guy hanging drywall for $10.00 hour who had a really good technical job whose company downsized or went busts.. and he can't find anything else. Poor guy has an "earning potential" because the state assigned it to him because he was previously employed in that field so his child support can't be reduced to what he actually makes, which is a bout 50% of what he made prior.. (probably even more than 50%).. What are his options - go back and get training in ANOTHER field?
Excellent point, and the funny thing, the percentage of GDP tied to government seems to be higher in rural, poor, conservative communities. That is largely due to the fact corporate America rightfully chooses to avoid these areas, as the pool of good applicants are few and far between.
There are huge brain drains from the poorer states. The kids that do well in school and go on to college/university/advanced technical training have no choice but to leave as quality jobs are so few and far between.
The people that work at Los Alamos, etc. are virtually all imports.
Anyone remember the debacle in NC when Dell opened a plant there (with government assistance of course) and then had to close because they couldn't find qualified help?
Shouldn't we be endeavoring to get people the training, education, etc. they need instead of deriding those who clearly state the obvious? Or are we just too proud to admit that there really is a problem?
The problem is that people undervalue jobs that society needs. Sure, the check out girl is not as valuable as the heart surgeon, but certainly the check out girl should be valued enough that her work doesnt' still leave her in poverty. Those low paying jobs are just as much needed in our society as those that are high paying jobs. They are all that makes our society function well and efficiently.
No one is saying that everyone should be the same, get the same,etc. But, a days work should atleast afford someone the ability to live without needing the government to supplement their living.
So, as to your value statements, maybe htose that look down on such jobs needs to really evaluate the value that those people offer.... and not take for granted the person that serves them when they go out to eat, pumps their gas, or cleans their toilets.
Obama doesn't believe adult Anericans are capable of making their own decisions. Or he thinks this generation is too stupid to figure any thing out. Since when did the government have to micromanage the lives of our citizens?
The president probably doesn't want more people trying to raise families on $10.10/hr. We have enough ditch-diggers in this country....why does it have to be more than that? Even manufacturing these days requires higher education, so unless your life's ambition is to work retail, you need education beyond high school.
It might help for you to do actual research or learn something before you talk about it. But that might be asking too much out of you.
1) College is not liberal indoctrination. In fact, you should check to see whether conservative politicians have college degrees and whether conservative states support higher education.
2) College tuition is relatively affordable compared to historical pricing. So your increase complaint is nonsense. It takes much less than 20 years to pay off $26k of debt for college graduates.
You might want to learn to research better so you don't post with so much error.
You go research, child. Come back in 40 years and tell us what you find out.
I can get behind what you said.. that seems logical and isn't just about cutting welfare and expecting them to magically find higher paying jobs.
However,this goes back to the OP's original question about encouraging college. In order to get a higher paying job it requires additional schooling beyond high school of either job training, which takes money, or an associates or bachelors degree.. which takes money. Simply wanting a higher paying job isn't going to magically make a person qualified for one or having one magically materialize.
THat is why so many are ending up in low paying jobs. You know how many people i met that are working minimum wage jobs because there arent any jobs in their field anymore. I know one guy hanging drywall for $10.00 hour who had a really good technical job whose company downsized or went busts.. and he can't find anything else. Poor guy has an "earning potential" because the state assigned it to him because he was previously employed in that field so his child support can't be reduced to what he actually makes, which is a bout 50% of what he made prior.. (probably even more than 50%).. What are his options - go back and get training in ANOTHER field?
We did that to ourselves.
We used to have vo-tech or academic the last two years of high school.
Guy took shop, mechanics, etc. and got apprentice jobs with the local business.
Girls took business courses (can't remember specific courses) and also got apprentice jobs with local business.
It worked. And it didn't cost these students anything.
College is always there. You don't have to go at 18 right out of HS.
The instant gratification crowd don't' even consider taking a course or two while working to eventually better themselves.
And today it's so much easier with online courses.
We did this "have to go to college" and change education to 100% academic ourselves.
Enough with this redneck bonanza! Do you really think that a college degree equals apprenticeship in a trade so a college grad equals an unskilled laborer?
From the getgo a college grad gets a higher salary, lets compare a salary of a nurse and electrician apprentice for instance and an upward mobility that being a skilled carpenter would never do.
And no: CEOs of hospitals are hardly ever doctors. Lol
Lets be honest, the world belongs to college grads, every president and 99% of congressmen have a degree. Every tradesmen I know always wanted to put his kids through college. That's been always thevwaybto advance in society
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian
I never said anyone starts out as a master carpenter/electrician/plumber/whatever. I said that folks who are masters in the skilled trades would beg to differ with your claim that only college degreed jobs offer upward mobility.
And a college degree is to white collar what low-man-on-the-totem-pole grunt apprentice work is to the skilled trades. The first step in a long journey. Point is, both can get you to upper class if you work hard and stick to it. You made the claim that ONLY white collar can do that, and that's elitist nonsense.
To your point about "not trained in business" being a problem with builders...yeah, hospitals and law firms suffer from the exact same thing. People become CEOs of hospitals and law firms and in a lot of cases because they are good doctors and lawyers, not good managers/administrators. Having worked in many fields, including health care and legal, during my software development career, I can tell you that bad management can be found in every industry among all sorts of people, white or blue collar.
And spare me the "well I could never be...." excuse. It's tired and worn out. No, not everyone can be a master carpenter, or a heart surgeon, or any of a few thousand things, but every can work hard at something that is valued, everyone can save money and spend less, and everyone can do better than they currently are. Exceptions do not disprove rules. Except after C does not negate the general rule of I before E.
Find something people value, work hard at providing/creating it, do so for many years....success will find you. The color of the collar you wear doing so will be largely irrelevant.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
