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Why do you think so many, who need medical attention come to America? Think again. Yes, there are some benefits and yes, our system is anything but perfect but don't think socialized medicine is the answer.
Note that a small but growing number of American health insurers are encouraging their enrollees who need surgery that is deferrable to get it done in lower cost health care countries like India or Costa Rica because it's significantly cheaper for them to put the patient and a caregiver on a plane to Delhi, cover surgery, and a couple weeks stay in a Residence Inn equivalent than it is for them to get the same surgery in a similar quality medical facility in the USA.
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Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer America is still the best country for making money in if you are highly educated.
America has by far the most millionaires of any country in the world.
That puts America a cut above the rest of the world's countries to live in, as far as I'm concerned.
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Originally Posted by markg91359
I find this troubling. I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, but I could conclude that you would be most happy in a country where a few people had almost everything and the vast majority had to scratch to earn a living.
The reality is that in a society where there is a strong middle class the wealthy benefit too. There is an insufficient market for computers, cars, and quality medical care when too much of the populace is poor and destitute.
America's middle class is a major reason why we are a great country. As the middle class declines, I fear it is inevitable that our country will decline as well.
I couldn't agree more with how markg91359 has replied to BigCityDreamer. The United States of America used to be a beacon to much of the rest of the world for the many things that were great about our country:
-Public education for all
-Opportunities for anyone willing to work hard
-Social Security to give our seniors safety in their old age
-A safe food supply and abundant and good drinking water
-Other kinds of help for people who were in trouble
-Help for other nations in the world who have less than we do
-Support to advance our American culture
How many of those things are still a model for the rest of the world? Do you think parents sending their kids to schools in inner cities or desolate rural areas think their schools are a model?
Ask a person who is 50 and out of a job if there is an opportunity for them even though they are willing to work as hard as they ever had in their lives.
Have you talked lately to an old lady who has nothing to live on but a Social Security check? Ask her if she feels "secure." For that matter, ask a 30-year-old if they think Social Security will be there for them.
If you feel the government is protecting our food, water, and air as much as they should, speak to a person from Charleston, West Virginia. They may as well be living in India. And why? Because regulations are bad for big business.
If you think we're doing everything we can to help those who need a hand, then where were you when we allowed President Johnson's Great Society Program (which was PROVEN TO WORK) die?
Do you grouse about "foreign aid"? (I excuse you from that if you wouldn't grouse about it as long as we helped re-build New Orleans first.) When's the last time we went to war to protect someone vulnerable because it was the right thing to do instead of getting something?
Are you one of those people who wouldn't cry a tear if PBS went off the air and we were all left to the Kardashians and Honey BooBoo because "that's what the capitalist market calls for"?
Note that a small but growing number of American health insurers are encouraging their enrollees who need surgery that is deferrable to get it done in lower cost health care countries like India or Costa Rica because it's significantly cheaper for them to put the patient and a caregiver on a plane to Delhi, cover surgery, and a couple weeks stay in a Residence Inn equivalent than it is for them to get the same surgery in a similar quality medical facility in the USA.
and what do you know about India and Costa Rica? They are a far cry from countries like America, UK, etc. They border on being third world countries, especially India. There is more to medical care than saving money. This a ridiculous claim or suggestion. Would you like to tell us which health insurer suggested this or actually did this?
Note that a small but growing number of American health insurers are encouraging their enrollees who need surgery that is deferrable to get it done in lower cost health care countries like India or Costa Rica because it's significantly cheaper for them to put the patient and a caregiver on a plane to Delhi, cover surgery, and a couple weeks stay in a Residence Inn equivalent than it is for them to get the same surgery in a similar quality medical facility in the USA.
Have you been to India before? I don't think you realize how terrible it is there.
and what do you know about India and Costa Rica? They are a far cry from countries like America, UK, etc. They border on being third world countries, especially India. There is more to medical care than saving money. This a ridiculous claim or suggestion. Would you like to tell us which health insurer suggested this or actually did this?
Border? You can't walk anywhere in India without seeing children and babies sleeping in the street, smell sh*t, see shacks in the nicest parts of town, cows walking through busy streets. The list could go on.
Costa Rica is not on the same level as India, but it is worse off than even a lot of other Latin American countries.
By one set of estimates, the out-of-pocket price of a hip replacement in the U.S. is $75,000, compared with $9,000 in India; heart bypass surgery costs $210,000 here versus $12,000 in Thailand. Those tenfold or more cost savings may be impossible to resist. Insurance companies are eyeing foreign health care as a way to save money, with self-insured employers, and even state and local governments, also exploring this option. A knee replacement that costs an insurance company $35,000 in the U.S. runs just $13,000 in Singapore; even with the added expense of airfare and a hotel for the patient and a traveling companion, it's a huge cost savings.
Cuba also relies on medical tourism to bring hard currency into the country- doctor training standards there are high, and the cost of elective procedures (think cosmetic surgery and such) is low compared to what you'd pay in France or Canada.
I've lived for 4 years in the UK and 2 in Australia.
America is a great place to be upper-middle class or better. The private schools and top universities are unbeatable and only rivalled in the Anglophone world by Oxbridge. At that socio-economic level, your healthcare is top-notch and tax laws are highly beneficial. Your retirement income is likely all capital gains (taxed at a much lower rate than ordinary earned income) and our estate taxes are generous compared with most of the developed world. One has their cake and eats it too with the high income/assets and the America's low cost of living (food, fuel, housing, consumer goods).
Middle class is a toss up, and I distinguish it from middle income. In many states, "middle income" objectively...sucks. Few or no vacations, pay-check to pay-check, worrying about medical bills and so on. In down state New York, the middle class could be earning twice what middle income in Flyover Country gets, with the lifestyle associated with middle class: money for retirement, money for their children's college education, new'ish cars, good to excellent healthcare, potential for holidays abroad, money for a rainy day, etc.
Young people certainly have it better abroad, no questions asked. British students, for example, acquire loans directly from the government. They follow the rule of Bank of England base rate + 1%. Student loan interest rates haven't exceeded 2% since Feb 2008. There are mechanisms to reduce and forgive the debt with time. Given government subsidies of universities in Britain, debt taken on is quite limited compared with US horror stories. Australia functions similarly. Additionally, given the relatively high minimum wage of $20 in capital cities, a student can realistically work and contribute 20k per year to their education/living costs working 15-20 hrs per week. Students/youth seem to enjoy reduced rates EVERYWHERE. Public transport costs are halved to as little as 1/3-1/2 normal cost. Cinemas, book shops, clothing shops, and restaurants/take-outs will offer student deals. If a catastrophe occurs, such as Charolastra's cancer diagnosis, her UK or Australian counterpart would never have to worry about medical costs...just focus on recovering. In the US, Charolastra experienced the worst aspects of US healthcare. Because insurance isn't tied to work, there isn't the worry of "Too sick to work? No insurance for you!" I know a med student whose particular blood cancer, multiple myeloma, is guaranteed to kill within 3-7 years depending on treatment. "Remission" is a temporary reprieve as it always comes back. He's getting the best treatment and throwing his energy into campaigning for a cure.
Strangely, retiree quality of life seems to correlate directly with students. The seniors I observed in the UK were far more active than their American counterparts. Men would nurse a pint or two with friends at the pub. Older ladies would go grocery shopping together in groups of three or four....WALKING from the butcher, to the baker, to the greengrocer, to the main supermarket and back home again. If they came any distance, they would use the bus. Seniors in Scotland received free bus travel. I cannot call to mind any senior I know in the US walking anywhere for an errand, excepting my grandmother walking down the street for church (1/10 of a mile). Australian seniors seemed notably richer than their US counterparts.
The poor and working class have it better overseas. Safety nets are stronger and more comprehensive, and there seem to be better prospects for young people to break out via much easier access to tertiary education or job training. Interesting, perceptions of poverty abroad are "it's a financial situation" rather than the American view that it's a moral failing of the household. I have never seen poverty in the UK, Australia, Germany, or France that rivals (in scale and intensity) some of the truly grinding poverty of rural Maine, upstate New York, Appalachia, or even Florida once you go 5 minutes inland away from the hamlets of exiled New Yorkers. Further, other first world poor have access to better, more comprehensive medical care than back in the US.
Good post, but you say nothing about the waiting times for health care in the UK. One of the latest scandals there is the amount of time patients have had to wait for admission to emergency rooms. Many patients had to wait in ambulances for up to 8 hours at the hospital emergency room entrances because there was no room for them inside. In Italy, which has always had the best free healthcare, people now have to wait several months for MRIs.
sweetest words after a 5 years absence from america, upon returning, said by us customs, welcome home huck
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Would you like to tell us which health insurer suggested this or actually did this?