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Old 02-15-2014, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,208,835 times
Reputation: 4590

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Thus in order to solve the problems in America. You have to change the system. From one which is designed to further individual interests, to one which is designed to only further common interests.

From one where political votes are being bought for with earmarks. From one where every person or group is trying to keep track of the score, to make sure they come out ahead. To one where government actually acts for the common good.


As long as the government is capable of providing special benefits to specific interests, we will always have what we have. A bunch of people fighting for a bigger piece of the pie.


If you want to fix America. You need to eliminate all of the perverse incentives created by government, which necessarily places us in opposing factions. You need to create a system where you cannot "vote with your wallet".
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Old 02-15-2014, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,971 posts, read 47,629,107 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
We are arguing from two different points of reference.

You are saying that, politicians should compromise more, allowing things they don't like, in exchange for things they do like.

On the other hand, I'm arguing that government is best when the nature of government isn't simply people voting for their own interests. But rather are voting for the interests of all..
No, I am arguing that the parties reject ideas they do like, and they do it purely for partisan reasons. GOP has promoted cuts to corporate tax rates for years, but they rejected the very same idea when Dems proposed it. In the process they hurt the very people who voted for them to cut taxes.
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Old 02-15-2014, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,208,835 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
No, I am arguing that the parties reject ideas they do like, and they do it purely for partisan reasons. GOP has promoted cuts to corporate tax rates for years, but they rejected the very same idea when Dems proposed it. In the process they hurt the very people who voted for them to cut taxes.

You obviously missed my point. I'm saying, because of perverse incentives, the political parties are broken down into two camps who basically want entirely different things. And the reason why they are doing what they are doing, is that they are basically playing chicken, hoping the other side will cave in.


When you are using the government for free money, what incentive is there to make a completely even agreement with the other side? What good does it do to give them 2% and them give you 2%. You want to leave the table with more than them. And that is the nature of politics.


I'm just saying, as long as you have a system which encourages people to always vote for their individual interests over the interests of the nation. You are going to create division.


The more you drum up rich vs poor. The 1%, or the 99%. Class warfare. Whatever. What it amounts to is, "What can I get from government... By taking it from someone else?"


As I said, I'm not upset about poor people demanding stuff from the government, because rich people are doing precisely the same things in other way. Especially through protections, regulations, and subsidies.


This government has been corrupted to the core. And you have no one to blame but yourself.
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Old 02-15-2014, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,971 posts, read 47,629,107 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
This government has been corrupted to the core. And you have no one to blame but yourself.
I had no idea it was my fault
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Old 02-15-2014, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
77,771 posts, read 104,739,062 times
Reputation: 49248
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
"An old man reflects on his life. He was born in a communist country but had the good fortune to immigrate legally to the United States where he worked tirelessly, rising up from penniless immigrant to successful businessman. He could have spent his riches during his lifetime but chose, instead, to save and pass them on to future generations both within and outside of his family. He should not be penalized for such thrift. Yet, there are those who want to appropriate our wealth and property and disperse it as they see fit. They look down on our work ethic, success, wealth, and generosity. They view our resulting enrichment as rightfully belonging to others. Their mantras are income inequality, economic justice and class warfare. We are the 1%, the 99% want to "eat."
And they call me hater."

Please read more: Articles: They Call Me Hater

Now you know what's wrong. Share this article with everyone you know.
The important message I pick up from this: he came here "legally" like most of our families did, whether 50 years ago or 500 years ago. For all those who think there is a better way than our American capitalistic way, try living in another country. Of course that is if you can even find one willing to accept you. Many countries have a lot stronger immigration laws than we ever thought of having.
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Old 02-15-2014, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,094 posts, read 26,008,825 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmagoo View Post
NO...America needs sanity ID cards for voting eligibility. Goodbye TrEAson Party.
The term treason has a defined definition according to the U.S. constitution.

Harrier would like you to specify which political party you are accusing of treason and to outline specifically how that party is acting treasonously.

Your explanation had better have some basis in factual evidence that falls under the definition of treason given in Article III, Section 3.

Otherwise you are either entirely ignorant about the definition and are just throwing about big words, or you are using hyperbole for political purposes.
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Old 02-15-2014, 01:57 PM
 
6,326 posts, read 6,590,988 times
Reputation: 7457
1. The rise of corporations and monopolization of economy by famous top 1%, shrinking number of genuine employment and/or subsistence options, excessive regulation of the few remaining niches to ensure corporate dominance. The death of rural America and ongoing concentration of people in the burbs. The death of uniqueness and local flavor (not speaking of genuine local economies and cultures) and unification of America under global corporate banner backed by big government (stuffed by future and/or former corporate bosses), all this makes institutionalized wage slavery especially oppressing if you are a worker.

2. Widespread status anxiety and resulting rat race as no other is history. Since fewer and fewer corporate entities decide who's "successful" and who's not, who works and who collects food stamps, rat race and mass anxiety (since the ripe age of 3 y.o.) results in more and more uniformity, backstabbing, falseness. Nothing and nobody seems is real anymore, nobody to be trusted, people are more and more isolated if not lonely (despite abundance of gadgets and Facebook friends). Misery of existence is to be extinguished by more intense and thorough rat race and self-"improvement" from cradle to grave, by entertainment and bonafide drugs, whatever it takes not to stop and look around at the depressing desert. People become a sort of human dust, locked in themselves, and linked by zillions of laws and institutions.

3. Absolutely insane liability laws and legal system. Generally insanity of the judicial branch interpreting legal scrolls whatever way corporate wind blows. Ritalin happy educators and criminalization of child behavior (none of the ostentatious dictatorships thought of). Medical racket.

4. Institutionalized dumbing down, propaganda and mind control. The more "emphasis" on education the more ignorant and incapable of critical thinking people become. Younger folks' mind is thoroughly damaged and fragmented by internet and media. It's not clear if the damage can be fixed. General ignorance, mass cult dominance combined with people assuming a generic corporate personality (a wage slave must have to keep a job) creates a sense of incredible human uniformity. It's like people are manufactured on an assembly line. Again, it's something that no ostentatiously oppressive system could achieve.

I could go on, but it's enough for a rant.
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Old 02-15-2014, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,630 posts, read 19,418,524 times
Reputation: 6462
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
Once it becomes common to do whatever turns you on and ignore the rule of law its leads to conflict by its nature.
Yup. Also the baby boomers thought they were different. They wanted to be friends with their children and spare them from any pain. Johnny's a little hyperactive well he must have ADHD give him some pills. Kid not athletic enough well give everyone a trophy so no ones feelings are hurt.

No surprised that their kids are now lazy adults, jumping from one faux outrage to another.
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Old 02-15-2014, 03:26 PM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,419 posts, read 20,306,967 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
The term treason has a defined definition according to the U.S. constitution.

Harrier would like you to specify which political party you are accusing of treason and to outline specifically how that party is acting treasonously.

Your explanation had better have some basis in factual evidence that falls under the definition of treason given in Article III, Section 3.

Otherwise you are either entirely ignorant about the definition and are just throwing about big words, or you are using hyperbole for political purposes.
This is my guess.
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Old 02-15-2014, 03:33 PM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,419 posts, read 20,306,967 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
The important message I pick up from this: he came here "legally" like most of our families did, whether 50 years ago or 500 years ago. For all those who think there is a better way than our American capitalistic way, try living in another country. Of course that is if you can even find one willing to accept you. Many countries have a lot stronger immigration laws than we ever thought of having.
Yes, and he created wealth for himself through his own effort, took care of his family and provided a life for them that was better than what he had known. He is appalled that there are people in this country that feel entitled to his wealth (or the wealth of others) without doing any work, and also the incredible corruption of our morals and the rule of law, which has become (my words, not his) what you might find in any 3rd World "banana republic."

Most people who have taken the time to read the article (and they are few), are clueless as to what the author is talking about. I think it's over their heads.
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